THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 250

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:01.21)
Well, Nadine, welcome to The Accrescent Podcast. I’m so excited to have you on.

Nadine Artemis (00:05.964)
I’m so happy to be here, thank you.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:08.163)
You guys were so gracious to send me some of your products to experiment with. So I’ve been using them over the last couple of months. I think it’s the sea buckthorn oil that I’ve been using and it’s been amazing. I’ve seen you guys on the shelves. I’m here in Orange County at Mother’s Market.

Nadine Artemis (00:17.998)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (00:25.249)
Mm, yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:26.262)
So you’re a brand that’s kind of been in my periphery for a while, but just never got around to trying. And so it’s been so fun to get to experiment with the products and now get to have you on and do a little deep dive.

Nadine Artemis (00:39.406)
Love it. I’m so glad that you got to try some things before.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:42.83)
Yeah, it makes all the difference, because then we can kind of speak to some of the experience a little bit. But as always, for the audience who maybe has never heard of Living Libations, this is their first introduction to you, to the brand. Can you give us a little bit of an origin story of how you got into this field, how you wanted to decide to start a skincare company? I think it goes far beyond that. You have so many more products than just skincare, but tell us a little bit of the origin.

Nadine Artemis (01:10.51)
For sure, and skincare is where it started. And I I do feel, you know, when you get a few decades older, old, whatever that is, and you look back, like you can definitely see the breadcrumbs along the way that did form that, even though they might have been like such small micro moments. and luckily I do like my childhood was steeped in a lot of nature. And like I kind of feel like I look back on my childhood, it just like a long summer day. Of course it wasn’t.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:38.246)
That’s the best way you could describe a childhood.

Nadine Artemis (01:40.162)
You know, and so and like we Yeah. Yeah. And just so much time in nature and in our little forest and just like I loved mixing things and and you know, just petals and leaves, like just mud pies basically. And that kind of stuff was in me, or even if I went over to a friend’s house in like I remember in grade three, we you know, were dancing to like disco and then making

blender things with just like baby powder and whatever was in the bathroom at the time. So I definitely had this inclination to mix and I would mix my mother’s perfumes and that kind of thing. and then grade nine we had an opportunity, we had a science fair project, which was a rare moment where we could do our own subject, pick our own thing to learn, which was so rare. And I got this book at the library that was like about making cosmetics.

And it was just geared for that age. And there was this chapter on perfume. You know, I had all the perfumes at the time. This is like the early 80s or the 80s, and I’m collecting all the shapes and mixing even them. But then I just was like riveted by this history of perfume, which back then, you know, we didn’t have like blogs and we the information was a little bit more streamlined. And I just realized that nature like that

Originally was from nature, and that it was like distilled parts of plants, and that this distillates are something called essential oils, and that you could find essential oils, you know, at a health food store. So my mom took me to that bigger city where we I got my first whiffs of like just basic, like orange and ylang-ylang, but it smelt so different. It really, you know, it’s not like in that moment I was like, that’s a natural, that’s a synthetic.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (03:28.869)
Hmm.

Nadine Artemis (03:29.305)
everything else he’s been smelling in the eighties is totally synthetic. So that was really neat and it just definitely spoke to me. And I recreated this perfume, Nina Ricci’s L’Air du Temps and that was my first thing with essential oils. And then just sort of having normal teen life and the body shop came out, we all thought it was natural. Then I get to university and I’m like walking by this health food store every day, like a little one inside a home called Grains and Beans and Things and I bought every book and every bean and the books were amazing and I was

Just sort of mapping out like understanding the body in different ways, like what could be the root cause of like eczema or headaches and rooted in in constipation or clearing blackheads. It was just so neat to tie all that together. And then I started going to the organics far organic farmers market and making my own food and then understanding what was going on with like labels on foods and what all that meant. And then I just turned to everything in my bathroom.

And realized, you know, there is no dewberry plant and the cucumber face toner hadn’t seen a cucumber. And but there was sort of in that moment, it I mean it was a moment, but it kind of took a couple of weeks, where I was like, my god, I’m gonna make my own things because I’d started making my own food because you know, I’m just away from home and at university, that kind of stuff. So I just started making like massage oils and perfumes and everything like that. And that was the start of it all.

And then I started importing ingredients and all that. So that was like back. And then in 1992, I opened up North America’s first full concept aromatherapy store in Toronto. And now if you’ll give me one moment, I have to let my dog in.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (05:10.809)
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Nadine Artemis (05:25.922)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (05:33.057)
Okay, now hopefully she’ll settle. Okay, sorry.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (05:35.617)
good.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (05:40.08)
So there’s so many places we can go because skincare has become in some ways so complicated. But one of the things I feel like I have loved as I’ve gotten to know Living Libations is…

I almost feel like you’ve uncomplicated it. You’ve taken us back to our roots, grounded us back in some ways in ancestral wisdom. And as I was doing some research for today’s conversation and hearing about how much research you have done in ancient beauty practices, that was something that lit me up so much. And I felt is something not often being talked about enough. so I was wondering if you could share a little bit of that journey you went on.

What captivated you? What made you want to look up and kind of look into ancient beauty rituals like the Egyptians? And what were some of the things that you discovered?

Nadine Artemis (06:34.697)
yeah, it’s such it’s so deep there. Well, I felt like in that time when I’m like, you know, I’m I’m formulating and I’m understanding and then really essential oils are these ancient ingredients. Of course we have more today and we can distill more plants and we can understand a lot more about them through like gas chromatography and different ways to read all the like the hundreds of like phytochemistry molecular like those molecules within one drop. Like there’s

worlds upon worlds in one drop. So and also I’m not into the synthetics. I feel like that was just, you know, I’m always like, what were we doing before synthetics? So considering the synthetics were sort of coming in around the early 1900s, I find like that late 1800s, 1800s Europe a really good wellspring of research areas because also in that time they were looking at a lot of ancient stuff as well.

So I like to know what were we doing before synthetics, which was, you know, like thousands of years opposed to this wherever we’re at now, I mean I still think like nineteen eighties is about twelve years ago, ten, twenty years ago. So like, you know, I guess we’re like sort of seventy years in it in a bit. And then of course chemicals and everything are advancing out a rapid

Rapid pace right now. And right now a lot of synthetics are actually like grown on bacteria, even for perfume, even for I write about in my book Renegade Beauty, but they’re growing like fragrance on bacteria, and like not all that big bacteria is that exciting. Like hyaluronic acid, which is very popular, for example, and was first sort of discovered. I mean it’s always existed, but it was discovered in like the late 1800s, and it was like made with like cow eye and rooster cone.

And you know, and it’s in it’s in us, and it’s kind of like you know, like it’s a it’s a nutrient. And of course, we did we used to eat like, you know, fish eye soup, or you know, we used to eat more or stuff. So exactly. So so it has that history, but of course that’s too expensive on one level to kind of mass produce. But now hyaluronic acid, it’s you know, and it’s a great

Leigh Ann Lindsey (08:27.823)
guys.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (08:38.265)
Right, right, kind of all the parts of the animal.

Nadine Artemis (08:56.429)
I think manufacturers love it because it’s about $100 a kilo, which isn’t much in the scheme of things. But you only need like about 1% in a formula because the rest expands with water. So it’s like pennies to kind of fill a bottle. But it’s grown on a t a Streptococcus, like a type of bacteria.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (09:11.333)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (09:15.385)
Great.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (09:21.955)
No way.

Nadine Artemis (09:23.103)
Yeah, and then that’s like, you know, harvested, it’s cleaned, and there are processes. But yeah, I just I’m like we can I feel like we can do better than that. Plus it does it so it does create I think also industry likes it makes a what am I trying to say here? It does make an effect. So I think that’s also what’s good because it can be it it is doing something and that’s like what manufacturers can lock into, but there’s always like what’s the long term thing.

And it actually, while it can be like a humectant and plump, but it it’s like a temporary situation because in it can lead to long-term dryness because it actually, while it seems like it may prevent transepidermal water loss, it actually helps to create it. So that’s just like one way into like you know, a whole little world there. We do that all day with so many ingredients. So I’m like not interested in that. And

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:16.016)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (10:21.975)
Cause I’m I’m here to just, you know, this lifetime I’m exploring the other stuff. Like, do we need it? What else can we use? So I love looking at like what were the ancients doing before we had chemicals? And what is the innate intelligence in our body? So I, you know, I wrote a book on dental care and we have like a dental care line. But we weren’t born with a toothbrush in our hand. So what is the biological process that must be assisting this matter? You know, and then you dive in and

Takes a few years, but you find things. And I love following those breadcrumbs, so to speak. And then we find out, you know, that there’s a whole other process. There’s a dentinal lymphatic system that runs through each tooth, and that like creates a buffering agent, and that’s what pr repels cavities from coming into like it’s a whole system, and I don’t have to get too in depth in it, but it does it buffers against cavities, for example. So then we want to know like.

What do we want to do to stay in harmony with that? How can we assist that process? And certainly how can we not hinder it? Whereas a lot of things that we are doing in the name of beauty and applying topically are inhibiting or mutating that innate intelligence of the body. even if we just think of something like the microbiome, which is the word for basically that we’re these.

We’re basic, we’re our bodies are host to a bacterial banquet. And as gross as that sounds, we need that bacteria. They are keeping us alive as much as our cells are. But this is quite new. It’s really in the last two decades. Prior to that, we thought the stomach was a sterile environment. And now we know like the gut microbiome is like the you know, busy, busy place. So we have our gut microbiome, we have our skin microbiome.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:04.602)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (12:13.579)
So that’s really huge. And I’m speaking very general, but a lot of the topicals that we’re putting on topically are messing with that microbiome and then perhaps creating these cyclic cyclical loops, these dependency loops where we’re mutating the microbiome. They can’t do their job. That’s throwing off the sebaceous gland. That’s throwing off that host environment because they’re supposed to be there to help help you balance your skin.

And what we find is even though in the 60s clinique created that system of skin type, it’s a lot of hype. Because when we really get to the root of it, we can see that things like melasma, eczema, psoriasis, you know, all those various things that can happen to our skin, acne, you know, rosacea, I think I mentioned, is really a microbiome and balance issue. And then these things get exacerbated because we’re using chemicals.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:52.646)
huh.

Nadine Artemis (13:13.229)
To strip, you know, get that squeaky, stripped, clean feeling with chemicals, that’s throwing off the sebaceous glands. They’re like, we gotta pump out more oil. We just got like desert, desert, dessert, like deserted, dried up. So then it’s sending different signals to the skin to create things that further create dysbiosis. Or you can think of the dependency loops that you get from a simple chapstick.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:27.372)
Right.

Nadine Artemis (13:41.304)
You know, where people are just applying all day because it’s like actually making the lips dry rather than repairing it. Because most people that use our lip balm, it’s like, you know, they’re once a day and they’re done. Using it over and over. And then there’s a lot going on right now with hyperpigmentation and melasma. And then there’s like all these various acids, like kojic acid and as azelaic acid, and all that stuff. But then what’s happening there is it’s like

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:52.656)
Mm-hmm.

Nadine Artemis (14:10.945)
So melasma hyperpigmentation is like a like a browner spot, like a bit of a discolored spot. And it suppresses it, so you think it’s successful, but then it’s kind of like like a spring. So you’re like suppress like a metal spring, like a mattress spring, you’re suppressing it, suppressing it, it’s kind of putting down. Then the moment you stop, it it it c then the melasma can even come back with with vengeance. And so I feel like a lot of the skincare solutions out there are kind of like

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:26.672)
Mm-hmm.

Nadine Artemis (14:41.079)
They may work, there may be this moment, but then it kind of comes back like a bit of a tsunami. And then we think, like what’s what are we doing there or what’s wrong or what you know and then yeah, we’re because we’re not getting to the root of things. And I like getting to the root of things.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:46.662)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:55.898)
Yes, can you give us, I wanna go deeper in a second into what you feel like are some of the maybe most damaging or unproductive things we’re doing with our skincare, because I love where you’re going. It’s so fascinating. I heard you talking about soap cleansers and what that’s doing. So we’ll get into some of that. But I do wanna go back to.

As you were researching some of that ancestral ancient beauty traditions, what might have been one or two of the things that you discovered that was the most interesting, insightful?

Nadine Artemis (15:24.076)
Yes.

Nadine Artemis (15:32.62)
Yeah, well I love and which is you we were mentioned the sea buckthorn oil, which is our sea buckthorn Best Skin Ever, which is the first sort of one bottle to do it all that we created back in the nineties. And it does, you know, you can you can do everything from, you know, obviously moisturize your body, put on your hair, you can take care of like a diaper rash with it, like from babies to the men in your household, everybody. But it one of its main purposes is it’s an oil cleanser.

Which, you know, be more people know about that now, but unfortunately a lot of the oil cleansers are made with like silicones and soy oils or petroleums and or then if it’s natural, it could be like you know, there’s oils that are always rancid or not pure, like an almond or avocado or grapeseed oil, that kind of thing. So we don’t want to be using that either. so one of the most fascinating things I was like, what you know, ’cause soap isn’t is old, but it’s

It’s not it’s like a bit newer. Oil came first. So that’s what I loved is like every when we look to transculturally, you know, cross-culturally, trans historically, many cultures were using oil to cleanse. So whether you’ve got the the Berber women, which are Moroccan, what you know, going through the desert, or you got Turkish baths, Roman baths in traditional Chinese culture. So there’s many different cultures, there’s more than that. And I do do it.

Have a deep dive article on the history of oil cleansing because it’s really fascinating. But like let’s say, like the Rome, the Roman baths, for example, you get oiled up with unguins and which would just be thick oils with like herbal paste and essential oils in them. And then this thing called a strigil, which is kind of like a guasha, but it was be with metal. And then they would just run that over the body. Or you could think of something like the back of a butter knife. So a you know, it’s scraping, but it’s not scraping, scraping.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:03.174)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:24.592)
Mm-hmm.

Nadine Artemis (17:28.901)
and then they run that over the body, and then you’re bathing, then you’re rinsing, and then you get the fresh oiling afterwards. And that really describes oil cleansing. So we can do that to our bodies, but also our face. And it’s the best way because like attracts like. So the oil lifts everything out of the pores, doesn’t leave this. So a lot of the modern ingredients are also leaving microscopic residue, and soap is leaving like.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:54.95)
Hmm.

Nadine Artemis (17:58.112)
you know, that gentle foaming cleanser from Whole Foods is leaving these what they see under the microscope is these kind of surfactant splinters in the stratum corneum and that doesn’t get rinsed away with washing and it sort of builds up. So there’s a lot of micro buildup in our pores. So you know I think we’re thinking, we got cleanse from like dirt and that kind of stuff. But like you know a lot of us aren’t actually you know getting down in the dirt and we don’t have a whole lot of dirt.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:15.086)
Uh-huh.

Nadine Artemis (18:27.063)
so but we want to cleanse and renew, but the synthetic ingredients aren’t doing that. So the like so all you have to do to wash the face, actually I have a cotton thing here. You just would take like a cloth or a cotton round, you wet it, then you would squirt just like a drop, like a squirt of oil, and then you’re taking that wet cotton or that spot of the face cloth, and that’s it. And you’re cleansing there, then you rinse with water, and then you could use one squirt as your moisturizing.

rinse at the end. And it has helped so many people, even that like because with people with acne, it’s a little bit scary to say oil cleansing. But it starts to really balance. And I mean people are usually getting results within 24 hours and then you know building up over the few weeks. But things like with cystic acne would take a little bit longer, but people do see that balancing coming in. For a very small

part of the population there can be depending on sort of what products were used prior, there can be a bit of a a cleansing moment. And so sometimes as that stuff’s leaving the skin, there can be, but usually just for a few days and then you kind of move beyond that as your skin gets reset.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (19:39.162)
Almost like a deep purging.

Nadine Artemis (19:41.085)
Exactly, yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (19:43.687)
I just love that. think you were talking about the Egyptians in a different conversation and how, yeah, there was something like they had basins of rose oil that they would like kind of heat and spread throughout the city and at different times of the day.

Nadine Artemis (19:57.292)
yeah. Like they’re Cleopatra ha like had her bathroom and then there was a whole still room as in distill where they were making like the rose water rose oil fresh as part of her bathroom. And she soaked her sails in rose water as she sailed across to visit Mark Antony so that when she arrived it would be, you know, all with rose water. But they even would have banquets and stuff where they would have

soak not soak soap but put rose water on like doves and then have them flap through the banquets and then in in the in Egypt there would be like incense going at s sort of how maybe we would have church bells ringing at certain times so there would be a rotation of incense like at high noon, I think it was myrrh. So there was a lot of celebration of like beautiful smells and

And there’s the you know, and there we may be kind of used to hearing all like sandalwood or frankincense, and we may be used to these beautiful ingredients, but like there’s this this there is every essential oil is so unique, and they really are these substances that are like nothing else on the planet. Like they’re each their own substance, and then as a collective, the essential oils are like nothing else because they’re not an oil.

Yet they don’t mix with water, which is I think where where whoever named it came in. But they’re not oily, they’re not fatty, but they’re liquid. they’re volatile, meaning they can evaporate. So there’s these those molecules that can like leave the bottle. And they’re kind of like a solvent, because they can s they can they have this different texture, but they’re not like an alcohol, you know, and they’re not a flower essence, and they’re not a tincture. There’s nothing else added. I mean, obviously we

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:27.194)
Right, okay.

Nadine Artemis (21:49.728)
Add them into things, but once they’re distilled, there’s you know, there’s no water in there, there’s no oil in there. They’re very unique. And I think there’s such special substances for these times because it’s so cool when we look at the ancient history, like all the ones that we use for oral care, and then in these times, then we’re looking at them under the microscope and just seeing how do they work with bacteria and viruses, and then you’re just seeing like

The power of the phytochemistry, and and it just makes so much sense as to why these essences have been used for thousands of years to clean up things like oral care, because now we can understand that they are bacteriostatic, which means they can work with the beneficial bacteria, but clean up the pathogenic bacteria. Some are able to bust through biofilms, which is a thing that a lot of antibiotics can’t do. But then the antibiotics are messing with the good bacteria.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (22:40.815)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (22:44.585)
So not only are they like, you know, helping skin and scars and acne and they can they can be these intercepts for hyperpigmentation, they can stop that process. There’s like so many intricate things they can do and they’re so, you know, also beautiful and sensual and aromatic.

And I just feel like there’s just such perfect substances for these times because we do need substances that can balance the bacteria but clean up the pathogens.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:16.56)
So I think the next place that we should go before getting into some of the debunking maybe, and I actually, maybe this is part of the debunking is I’m thinking of even in the holistic health world.

Nadine Artemis (23:27.458)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:28.172)
I have heard doctors and practitioners say things like essential oils don’t belong in the mouth. They don’t belong on the skin. They’re too harsh. They’re too intense. And so I would love to hear your perspective on that. What is, what are they missing there? Where might that be coming from? Is there a misunderstanding there?

Nadine Artemis (23:49.558)
It’s so mixed. So on one level, there is so much not quality and not even real essential oils out there and you ac wouldn’t want them on your skin or in your mouth. That’s sort of one thing. So definitely know the quality. Then there’s like a part of essential oils, and that’s because of the quality as well. And you know, ’cause they’re sold, you know, even ones sold in health food stores may not be actually real. Or they could be like how they do with the powdered herb of cinnamon.

Is it’s often cassia bark and not actually cinnamon bark, and you can get the same thing with the essential oil where it’s cassia and not cinnamon, which is a whole other story. It’s a different, you know, does it hotter on the skin? So there’s that. Now, once we get into pure essential oils, many of like generally speaking, you do want to dilute them before you use them. You because it’s like one drop does something, they are concentrated.

You know, in general you would be diluting it like I don’t, you know, somewhere between like a few percent to ten percent. And some of them you can use undilutedd on the skin. And again, though, it’s like micro, like I have a zit, I’ll put frankincense on it or something, you know what mean? So but not cinnamon clove or or oregano, there’s hot oils that never go undilutedd in the skin. Clove oil, amazing for the mouth. You never want to put it straight on.

So on one level, I think sometimes the message is like dumbed down a bit because there is nuance, but I think we can handle it. And even in that realm of like, even if you did put the clove undiluted in your mouth, it would be r r raw and like kind of not burnt, burnt, you know what I mean? So there’d be an issue, but it wouldn’t be like a light, like, you know, it’s still it will yeah. So you’ll get over that. So there’s those nuances. and then because it’s sort of like

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:33.52)
Severe. Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (25:43.256)
There’s a part of essential oils that seems very like hallmark, like potpourri, like kind of like, hey, we’re just like smelling good and the quality isn’t there, that you that it would be you don’t think of it like, this is medicinal. But then when you’re looking at the history, even our last hundred years, there’s such a beautiful, rich history of essential oil use coming out of France, where to this day doctors do prescriptions for various essential oils.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:56.678)
Hmm.

Nadine Artemis (26:10.955)
And you would go the pharmacist to to fill that up for the internal use. And they’ve been studied, you know, like which oils are antihistamines, which help with allergies, which clean up liver issues. So they’re the I think that’s being said when people don’t understand the history and the nuance. And of course, we’re always talking about working with genuine essential oils. But on another level, I’m kinda happy ’cause it kind of flies under the radar. Because these are super potent substances and

But they’re generally friendly to work with, which I think is kind of fun.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:44.41)
Mm-hmm.

Nadine Artemis (26:47.725)
I was just noticing there was like

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:52.276)
there it goes. It reset. That was where I wanted to start. so the, I think the place I want to go next is I know there’s probably 20 things you could share with us here. So we’re going to have to be strategic in where we go. But the question of if, if the listeners, if you were like, okay, if I could get people to change just three things of what they’re doing with skincare, like

Nadine Artemis (26:53.087)
Okay. Don’t know what was happening there.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:20.96)
stop doing these three things and let’s transform that or transition into blank. What would those maybe like top priority things be? What is being misunderstood? Why might we want to change those things? And then what’s the alternative?

Nadine Artemis (27:36.366)
Well, I think first like there’s a real chemical cocktail going on and that we’re just layering it on. And then of course there’s a lot of hype about singular ingredients like a hy hyaluronic acid or something. And it’s coming like we just discussed that one ingredient, but then it’s coming in a whole sea of other ingredients. So there’s all the ingredients in the chemicals, blah blah blah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:54.095)
Right.

Nadine Artemis (27:57.602)
But we can simplify by just starting with if you just washing and cleansing with oil. And if it’s not, you know, our best can ever, then just use a pure organic jojoba or a true organic virgin olive oil. And your skin will be far better off than anything from the drugstore or the beauty store. And I feel like that one movement is huge because you’re gonna let you can let go of a whole bunch of other steps and cleansers and all that.

And that then starts to because the whole thing is just to kind of reveal your best skin. So how do we get there? And yeah, it’s just not about the amount of chemicals that we’re applying. And again, there could be visual visual results that seem encouraging, but there’s a long-term payoff. So I feel like washing with oil is huge and probably takes care of a few steps. Because that literally could be all you do.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:52.932)
Yeah, if you’re going to change one thing, you start here.

Nadine Artemis (28:54.167)
Done. Exactly. You know, and then of course you can you know, we’ve got like we have we simplify on one hand and yet on the other hand, because I’ve been doing this for 30 years and there’s so many nuances, things I mean we have a crazy amount of products that we create and many different solutions, but it really can be that simple. Where you’re because our skin can just be so reactive and you know, we gotta just calm it down and get into because

Then other things happen like yeah, rosacea or that kind of thing. So that would be the one thing I would suggest. And then I feel like that kind of takes care of the skin. It’s that simple. We don’t need three things, but I would think of three other areas, which would be you know, switching out your deodorant and brushing with without toxic toothpaste would be a good idea too. We definitely have a whole dental line. I wrote a dental book, but even if you just got baking soda, a bottle of

of food grade three percent dilute hydrogen peroxide and

Would be handy there, like you know a bottle of peppermint or something, you can make your own toothpaste. And even if you just wash with a brush with baking soda for the rest of your life, you would be far better off.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:10.106)
Yeah, yeah. Can we talk about maybe some of those ingredients that are really hyped up in skincare? Hyaluronic acid’s a great one. I was gifted some hyaluronic products and it’s just so funny you’re saying this because that’s exactly what I’m experiencing, which is I put it on in the morning and I’m like, ooh, my fine lines are gone. This feels great. I look so plump, but wondering all along, is this actually…

fixing or changing my skin or is this just kind of like injecting plumpness each day, but it’s not actually nourishing anything. think vitamin C is another one I’d love your input on.

Nadine Artemis (30:44.993)
Yeah. Vitamin C again that is grown on things that we would I I would say take your vitamin C, get that from a acerola cherry is the cleanest form. And then I think another one is like retinol and all its various forms. That’s a really interesting one because it defin so it’s it’s creating rapid cell turnover and so you’re getting

Which is kind of why we overexfoliate and then there’s chemical peels, which obviously I would avoid. And just got some dog action back there, sorry. And but so then you’ve you’ve taken off that top layer, which we need, so we don’t want to even o over exfoliate, because again, you may wanna sometimes we wanna gently exfoliate. If you use the cloth, the oil, you do get a very mild exfoliation. You can put a pinch of baking soda in that on that oil.

You know, and then that does a really nice gentle exfoliation. I’m sorry I don’t know why the camera’s doing that. It’s sort of going in and out. Okay. and so it creates that gentle exfoliation. We don’t want to overexfoliate, and the same with the retinol, because it’s making the young skin skin cells come up too early. So it’s kind of like and that and it’s creating a very micro but chronic state of inflammation.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (31:49.488)
He’s totally fine.

Nadine Artemis (32:07.787)
So it creates a bit of that tightness and that, and then the shine is created because it’s the young skin cells. There’s a bit of a tightness because there’s a bit of a chronic inflammation, because you never give the full chance for it to rest, because you might apply it like every night. And it’s kind of like taking the tiles off your roof and then saying, look how shiny it is, but like you’ve just taken care of the just remove the defense system. So we need that top layer of skin, even though there are shiny new cells coming.

Coming up, we don’t want to be left that vulnerable. And you know, you can’t have the same relationship to the sun. We are definitely deficient in vitamin A, and it’s not something we can get. The type that we need, the fat-soluble, isn’t coming from vegetables. And we sort of again back to those organ meats or liver. You know, if we ate some liver a couple times a week, that would be great for vitamin A. So we do need the vitamin A.

And then there’s also like the Hayflick limit, which is like the cell, you know, has a limit to how many times it’s gonna replicate, if that’s the proper technical term. But you know, there’s that fold the turnover rate. So we’re kind of like borrowing. for a temporary glow today, we’re borrowing from tomorrow’s beauty, so to speak. but again, there’s that like immediate effect of something’s happening, and then you’ve got like

Leigh Ann Lindsey (33:18.256)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (33:34.059)
my skin you know is shinier and that so that is can that can lure us into thinking we’re doing something here but and then also how much you know generally speaking retinol in a cream and and again there are various forms I’m speaking generally but it’s like point one percent to one percent and the rest is like you know has to be some hardcore preservatives some BHT that kind of stuff so there’s no

Retinol in a pure cream either. So you’re getting a whole bunch of other stuff. So I think that’s another popular one, like super popular. And then we’ve got things like rose hips, rose hip oil or mastic essential oil, which is like a resin. Kind of like how frankincense is a resin. So similar. And those are do our precursors for the ret for natural retinol. So those are naturally occurring retinol. So we like to work with those.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (34:18.406)
Mm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (34:31.654)
Yeah. So where does someone start? I already think the audience, it’s fun to get into some of that because also in the, even in integrative natural beauty, these are big name ingredients. know, I see vitamin C every two bottles on the shelf. I see a hyaluronic acid everywhere. And so, and they seem natural. They seem just fine. But to your point, they, they might be, it’s my, it’s like diminishing returns.

Nadine Artemis (34:33.491)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (34:45.227)
Yes.

Nadine Artemis (34:59.447)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (34:59.846)
to your point, they’re solving today’s issue, creating problems for tomorrow. So let’s start to talk though a little bit about living libations. And you do have a really amazing product line that I think could be a little overwhelming for the person who first comes to the website. So I wanna maybe talk through first just what are some of your maybe…

Nadine Artemis (35:15.454)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (35:23.898)
bestselling products or products that the average listener could be really safe and comfortable to try. And then maybe we’ll get into how can someone maybe get support in finding the products that are more right for them. But I would love to just talk about what are some of your other bestsellers and why.

Nadine Artemis (35:35.458)
Yeah.

Nadine Artemis (35:41.997)
If don’t mind, I’ll start with the end, which is we do have a lot of articles on our website and you can email us with any question at all. And we also offer consults with Joy, who’s been working with us for 15 years, and I’ve you know taught her everything I know and she’s awesome, and that’s just literally free, and we’ll just figure it out if you need a new skincare routine, oral care routine, or like want to know what’s going on. So we do offer that. And then yeah, so I would start with like a Best Skin Ever.

Which we’ve talked about, which you know, we’ve got sea buckthorn, the frankincense, those are crazy best sellers. rose, which is really good for rosacea. Then we’ve got like immortal, Best Skin Ever, jasmine, which comes with castor oil. So we’ve got beautiful options there. And then really getting into that oil cleansing, which is just life-changing and it really brings out your glow, and a lot of issues start to fade away that that come up because the skin isn’t reacting anymore.

So we’ve got those beautiful ones, and then we have some best-selling serums that you could use, which are a little more concentrated, but really you could just start with a Best Skin Ever. And then for toners, we have a beautiful rose water stuff, but you could just even work with you know, fill a spray bottle with pure spring water, with distilled water, with so like make CO2 water, you know, like bubbly mineral water with a soda stream type thing. Those all make good face toners, a diluted apple cider vinegar.

depending on the strength you want, like twenty to forty percent organic apple cider vinegar.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (37:43.137)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:32.036)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:21.35)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:16.976)
Yeah. If you, for the average listener, again, everything is bio individual. At the end of the day, the audience should book that free consultation with your team to be able to get a really customized input. But for the listener, just for fun, if you were to say, here’s three products you could buy today that would be a really great place to start, which three would you suggest?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (42:37.316)
And just for clarity for the audience, the Best Skin Evers are a line of, are these just like the pure essential oils?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (42:49.35)
Like how would you describe them?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (42:55.087)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (43:30.66)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (43:37.733)
Yeah. Well, and I’m looking at the website right now because I wanted to be able to see it. You you have the sea buckthorn and the rose and the sandalwood, the Immortelle vanilla. There’s a chocolate Best Skin Ever. And I think I want the audience to understand it’s more than just the scent, right? It’s not just choose the scent that you want. These are really

powerful substances that are all supporting the microbiome and the skin in maybe different ways.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (45:11.226)
Yeah. If we were to break it down, I know I’m asking almost like the same question over, but in these different ways is if we were to maybe break it down by concern a little bit, what would be like if someone’s like acne is my biggest concern, which Best Skin Ever might they want to start with?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (46:21.702)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (46:40.112)
Okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (46:59.56)
huh.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:10.427)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:25.606)
Mmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (48:19.408)
Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (48:38.156)
Yeah, can we talk about, like I said, I’m going to hit you with now just a bunch of random questions in our last couple minutes here. What is causing, like pores to enlarge? Cause something I noticed and I was on the tallow bandwagon for a long time.

And it felt amazing. Like my skin felt really good, but my pores started getting larger and larger and larger. And I went to an organic facialist and she was like, you might want to try pausing the tallow for a bit. And when I stopped the tallow, the pores started to shrink down again. I know that’s not necessarily the case for everyone, but can we talk about enlarging pores a little bit?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (51:13.06)
Yeah. The other question is it’s summer. I live right by the beach. So I’m biking everywhere, walking everywhere, laying out on the beach all the time. And I typically like to lay out in the sun without any sunscreen for like an hour. And that’s about how long I can be out there without getting a burn. But, and then if I am going to stay out longer, I do then put like a zinc sunscreen on.

But even with that, like I’m noticing my hands are getting a little bit of the, you know, soft brown spots. And so what are some of the products that you might have that can be supportive during the summer months of a lot of sun exposure?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (51:57.903)
Yeah, no, it’s probably freckling. Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:27.814)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:35.227)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:42.693)
Okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:07.792)
Huh.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:14.758)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:29.112)
Yeah, almost like a protective. Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:48.826)
Wow, yeah, that is so, I just love that because I don’t love the idea, even the natural sunscreen, I don’t love the idea of it, but also just wanting to be like, okay, how can I nourish my skin as it’s getting a lot more sun? But it’s so interesting you’re talking about that morning sun exposure because…

I don’t know that I haven’t paid attention enough to notice it in terms of burning, but what I do notice is if I don’t get my morning sun, my eyes are so sensitive the rest of the day to sunlight. But if I do my morning walk, which I typically do, it’s almost like my eyes are protected. I don’t even need sunglasses the rest of the day.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (57:27.586)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (57:46.896)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:07.662)
Yeah, it’s all interconnected. Well, Nadine, this has been so much fun. I mean, we could just go on and on and on. I could ask you a million random little questions. I’m sure the audience could too. But it sounds like a really amazing next step for listeners is to go on the website, check out the products. And then for me, it’s book that consultation. It sounds like that’s a free service or resource that you guys offer.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:53.38)
Yeah, and it’s overwhelming. Like, it’s exciting. I go on your website and I’m like, my gosh, I want all of it. And then also going, okay, that’s, know, more isn’t always more and more doesn’t necessarily always serve me. So being able to get some great guidance and talk through skin concerns with someone to be able to choose a really refined, aligned system is amazing. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Nadine.