THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 230

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:00.662)
Well, Tony, welcome to the Accrescent Podcast.

Thanks so much for having me.

So a little bit of history for the audience. We have actually known each other for many, years. Many, many, probably like eight at least. And I have had like a really, think intimate front row seat to the water industry because my ex, the owner of the company that you’re representing today, who we both love dearly still and him and I have such an amazing relationship.

Many, yeah, quite a few.

TOny Pennington (00:16.738)
Yeah, eight years probably.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:32.332)
He created this company. He’s been in the water space for so many years now. So when you live with someone who owns water businesses and designs and manufactures water treatment systems, you hear about all the behind the scenes that most people don’t know. But I think that’s actually why I’ve been so hesitant to do an interview on water, because I knew I needed to have the right people on to be able to really give it like…

Sure.

TOny Pennington (00:58.446)
Mm-hmm.

the depth of attention it needs. And you and I both know how nuanced this approach is, but also how gimmicky a lot of the products out there are. And so I’m excited to give the audience like, you know, that kind of baseline information of what’s going on with the water. Why do we need to be concerned? But then really help people, I think, understand what’s going on with water systems, how to choose a good water system. Because when I talk to people kind of in person,

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:31.182)
It’s so hard. And I feel like there’s so little really good information for consumers to be able to choose a good system. And if a product or a brand has like shiny marketing, it’s really easy to get bought in if you don’t understand the deeper science of water.

Exactly. Well said. mean, and that goes with anything. I mean, you do a lot of research and you know how you search out facts and what you need to know and what you’re trying to accomplish, I think is always left up to the end user and in a busy schedule and you know, too much information or not enough. It’s a confusing conversation or just path to navigate yourself, you know.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So hopefully we’ll be able to give the audience more of a sense of here’s, here’s what really needs to be in a water filtration system. Here’s what are some of the red flags I should maybe be looking out for when I’m browsing potential products. And then of course, we’re going to talk about all of your guys’s products and how they might be different. But I think what the best place to start is just in case someone is new to this conversation and is like, on.

Why should I be concerned about what’s in my water? The city filters the water. Isn’t that good enough? Isn’t that safe? Why should I be concerned about this? What would be your response to that?

I think the water is safe enough for them. that’s where we’re going to start. I think is, you know, they’re putting out mass amounts of water publicly. So there are certain things they need to put in that water to at least make it livable. Right. I mean, you’ve got bacteria, so many other things in the water that they are addressing, but you know, once they take that water and it’s considered safe by a certain panel of people, then it travels through.

TOny Pennington (03:17.698)
You know, completely outdated infrastructure of pipes and leaks and cracks. And it might be picking up things along the way, of course. So I think once it gets to your home, that’s where, you know, the owner or client just kind of takes on their own, you know, responsibility or, or, or perspective on what clean water means to them. And it’s different for everyone. Some people are interested. some people are completely not. so I think starting.

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (03:46.7)
where that water enters your home is where people need to kind of take on their own responsibility if they’re interested in getting the best water for their health and wellness and home and protecting their home as well.

Yeah, I think that’s a fair point. To that end, a lot of the listeners might be experiencing cancer, they might be experiencing chronic illness. They might also just be really interested in longevity. in the holistic health world, I think we really understand that concept of toxic burden and how sometimes, yes, we do get a huge acute exposure to something. If something really extreme happens, you could get like a really acute exposure to, you know, heavy metals or

pesticides or mold or something like that. But I think here in the holistic health world, we also understand that for most of us, it’s that toxic burden that’s building up slowly over time. And really it’s those small, consistent exposures to chemicals and pathogens that actually start to build up in our system and then contribute to

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (04:54.094)
chronic inflammation, which then contributes to gut issues, which then leads to chronic illness. And so that’s kind of the cascade we’re talking about here.

Sure, sure. And all those contaminants, I mean, we’re all built differently, you know, with different genes, different, what we absorb affects us differently. So that’s, that all comes into play when having that conversation or being conscientious about, you know, either health and wellness, or just like you said, longevity, or just improving your lifestyle. And yeah, I think the approach is, you know, do some research and listen to podcasts like this.

Right. I want to expand a little bit on what you were just saying, because I think you made a good point, which is yes, to some extent, the drinking water in public systems. And also we know this varies district to district. And maybe you could even tell us like where people could look up the water quality in their area or their zip code. But I want to expand quickly on a point you made, which is there’s a difference between what’s happening in maybe the city

water systems. And then once it leaves them and starts going through all the piping to get distributed to all the homes in that area, that’s a whole different part. And the city’s not too, too responsible for that meaning. I mean, to some extent, I’m sure they are, but they could do their whole cleaning, whatever filtration purification side of it. Once it’s going through the pipes, you know, if there’s old pipes, it could be picking up things from the pipes.

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (06:23.682)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:31.2)
It could be picking up pathogens, protozoa, mold, chemicals, any number of things, even after it’s been, quote unquote, filtered by the city. Read it. There you go. Yeah, fix my terminology too.

Treated, treated.

Yeah, all those things come into play, you know, and it’s the infrastructure we have and it is what it is. You know, I’m hoping things become improved in that regard and, you know, the conversations keep happening. But yeah, it’s going to pick up anything. mean, water’s going to pick up anything it comes in contact with.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I know we probably have to be careful, so I won’t spend too, too much time here, but, you know, we have to be careful what we say so no one comes after you or I.

Yeah, we’re just here trying to get clean water to people, improve it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (07:20.242)
Yeah. But the other point I want to lean in on a little bit is a couple things. One, think the and you’ll have to correct me on the terminology in case I’m messing it up. I don’t know if it’s the FDA or the federal government that sets the regulations for appropriate levels of contaminants in water. But I think us over here in the holistic health world would say, yeah, even though legally

the amount of chlorine in the water legally can be this, that’s actually still far higher than what we would really want it to be for our health.

Sure. mean, any amount of chlorine is a, it’s a carcinogen just, you know, by nature. so removing that, I mean, you don’t want to be having that turn into vapor in your shower and then you’re breathing that in. the lungs obviously are a very quick transporter of, toxins or, you know, positive aspects, but, know, so, you know, you’re soaking in that and you’re, you’re, you’re showering in it.

or breathing in that off gas. There’s just so many ways you interact with it that we just kind of, don’t know, I don’t necessarily want to say take for granted. It’s just we’ve come just kind of institutionalized to just dealing with it, right? The smell of chlorine, you know, when you’re a kid, you go to the local pool and you know, it’s like, oh, I don’t know why I have this old reminiscent, know, it’s like, oh, it’s.

It’s almost nostalgic.

TOny Pennington (08:50.574)
it’s the pool and reminds me of being a kid and being at the pool and I don’t know, just back in like when it was my time. But yeah, removing that is one of the big tickers that you just want to at least address that immediately.

Yeah. Can you give us, if you can, and if you can’t, that’s okay. I can maybe work it into the intro, but can you give us a list of what I want to understand better for myself and for the audience is what, at the city level, what are they required to remove from the water? and then what, how are they doing that? We talked about chlorine, you know, from what I understand they’re adding chlorine to the water to treat things like

bacteria, viruses, et cetera.

Bacteria is the big one. I mean, that’s the one that needs to be, is going to be very immediate as far as causing issues, I think. So, I can provide that list later too, but I think that’s probably, that’s why they’re adding the chlorine or chloramine to the water, because that’s a chemical sanitizer. They’re using other applications, ozone.

TOny Pennington (10:08.326)
filtration, sediment filtration, just other aspects of water treatment for large distribution. But yeah, want to, mean, the bacteria is the biggest issue.

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:23.245)
Okay. And then that’s really their biggest concern is we’ve got to get bacteria out of the water. And then here’s the things they’re doing to get it out of the water. And the main component there is adding technically legal amounts of chlorine, but amounts of chlorine that really might not be that great for our health long-term.

Sure, sure, sure. Well, it’s got to travel out through an infrastructure and it has to, you know, have a, a residual in there. So bacteria doesn’t grow, you know, later, later in the process.

Right. What you mean by that, I understand like a lot more of this than the average audience. what you mean by that is correct me if I’m wrong, people whose homes are closest to the water treatment system of the city, is it correct to say they’re going to be getting the highest doses of whatever’s getting put in the water? And then the quantity of that, like the chlorine, for example, starts to dissipate the farther the water gets distributed from the treatment center.

Right.

TOny Pennington (11:25.634)
More or less, and then if they have injection points or if they’re using chloramine, which is chlorine mixed with ammonia, it has a longer half-life or residual. So it’s just, there’s different ways they approach that for distance reasons and time in the pipes and yeah.

Yeah, I think what I’ll do is at the start, maybe read out a list of things because even from what I understand and talking to other experts in the field of holistic health too, there’s other things even like parasite protozoa and different things like this that are microscopic that you can’t necessarily see that you can be heavy metals even pharmaceuticals there’s studies showing.

Right, right.

TOny Pennington (12:09.592)
Yep. Heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, we’re finding trace amounts of cyanide in some city water reports. there’s, yeah, it’s PFOS, THMs, disinfection byproducts and forever chemicals. They’re just horrible.

Yeah, yeah. And to that point, because I think the argument some people could make, and you hear this all the time is, well, I’ve been drinking tap water for X years and I’m still alive. But I do think us here in the holistic health world, we’re much more interested in not just surviving, but really thriving. And so those people who might be saying like, yeah, I’ve been drinking tap water for years and I’m fine. Are you fine or is your health?

in a state of a bit of disrepair, are you at optimal health or are you yourself maybe on pharmaceuticals and having trouble with health and small issues that maybe have been normalized? Like, yeah, it’s just normal to be a hundred pounds overweight and not sleeping well and on five different pharmaceuticals. And that’s just been normalized.

Sure.

TOny Pennington (13:12.462)
Right, issues that you have no idea why you had because you didn’t have them as a kid or just little things as well. mean, and how that how a statement like that might potentially contribute to the larger scope of, you know, how you’re feeling.

Yep. Okay. What I want to lead into is testing water quality and where can people go to maybe just get like a cursory glance of the potential water quality. But then if they wanted to do deeper testing, what are some options with that? What are, what are some things they should know or not know? Are there certain water tests out there that are just like, don’t waste your time on this because it’s not really going to give you a full scope.

Is there anything that they should know to do or not do or look for or not look for in a water test? But also I know, of course I’m forgetting it right now. Is it the EWG that has the water where you go type in your zip code?

Sure, so they do the health standards on water quality as opposed to in contrast to the public utility. So there’s a big difference there. You can search your local public water utility. They’ll usually have a posted utility report. They all differ in what they report as far as results. if you want to know, if you’re interested in

knowing deeper results or more contaminants, then that’s when it’s time to order a water test and then compare that to the utility and then compare that to the EWG and then kind of filter that down through your knowledge and what you’re trying to accomplish and figure it out from there. And that’s kind of where we come in.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:57.963)
Yeah, I do think maybe it’s updated. I remember a few years ago, so you can go on EWG and I think you can see standards, but you also can put in your zip code and it’ll tell you like what’s going on. And I think they pull that information from the city’s water. But like an interesting story I’ll share with that. I was living in an apartment complex. I won’t say the city, but I was living in an apartment complex for about a year and I was taking baths every night because I was in a super, super stressful period of life. And so.

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (15:13.582)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:28.003)
baths helped me relax. was taking bath every night and within a week I was having horrible headaches getting out of the bath. I was feeling really awful. And I was like, this is so weird. I don’t normally get headaches in the bath. What’s going on? And then I had the idea to look up on EWG, the water quality in the area I was in and arsenic levels were like 10 X the recommended amount of

you know, in the city water that I was living in. then wildly enough, because I have access to a lot of really cool testing, I did a bio-energetic test and arsenic was coming up as like a huge stressor on my system. And so that was just like a big eye-opener for me of, wow, I mean, especially something like a bath, we don’t realize you’re soaking in it. It’s hot, your pores are opening up, you are absorbing so much, you’re breathing in the fume, you’re absorbing so much of what’s in the water.

Right, right, right.

TOny Pennington (16:21.41)
Yeah.

Yeah, it’s really unfortunate to connect the dots back to that being, you know, that issue.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think there’s like an extreme place and it it depends for everyone, right? When you’re maybe in like a severe cancer diagnosis, you’re going to want to take that way more seriously. For me, for me, the nuance of it was being able to go. I’m pretty healthy. OK, there’s arsenic in this water. I don’t want to be soaking in it all the time. And also, I do think it’s OK for me to take a bath once a week. I really pulled back, but I think I still can take a bath once a week and.

next.

TOny Pennington (16:48.302)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:01.071)
know that I might be absorbing some of this. And so doing those things that I do normally do anyways, like taking my binders, getting in my infrared sauna. And so it’s not to create fear and it’s not to create a, my gosh, we have to hide from our water. But when you have that deeper understanding, you’re able to find ways to intervene or mitigate the effects as best as possible for you.

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (17:24.311)
Sure, sure. Well, you’re able to make a more educated decision and approach to either improving your water quality or, like you said, switching up the time schedules and just adjusting with knowledge.

Yeah. Is there anything people need to know if they were to reach out to a third party to do their own water testing? Is there, there any red flags where you’re like, if someone’s, you know, if you’re looking to get water testing done and the company is saying something like blank, blank, blank, you should be worried or in general is all water testing pretty standard.

there are a lot of different tests out there. Very specific. There’s broad tests. There’s PFAS specific tests. usually go, we just recommend, you know, tap score. they, they seem to be the most reputable online. they send you out a kit and there’s instructions in there. you take the sample yourself. It’s pretty easy and you mail that in and then they email you the results. there’s, know, there’s basic tests, there’s advanced tests.

that just give you a full panel or if you just kind of want to know the surface contaminants, there’s tests for that as well. They have a microplastics test that they offer. So it’s really, mean, if you’re into it and you’re, you you want to geek out and get into it, just, you know, browse their website. They do offer a lot of different tests and just read through the contaminant test result list that they offer.

See ya.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:52.057)
Okay.

TOny Pennington (18:59.33)
But you want to be sure that if you’re on city water, you order a city water specific test. And if you’re on well water, then that’s a completely different test. That’s a well water test. So you need to order the correct test for the correct results.

Yeah. Can you explain when it might, cause there’s some of us who we want like the deepest of the deep information. So we’re going to do that either way. And then there’s others who we might want to be a little bit more, you know, frugal and discerning with, look, if I don’t really need to do that extreme test, I don’t have to, but where would that come in for someone? Is it kind of like, look, you can do this test. It’s not going to make that much of a difference because

you if you really want the best water system, it’s going to be the same either way. Or, you know, actually it would be really helpful for you to do the max of the max test because it really could make a difference on the type of system you need.

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (19:54.434)
Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, the full panel tests, the advanced tests is what people normally end up choosing. Of course, once you get into this conversation, it’s like, it on me kind of thing. Like I want to know what’s in my water and everything that’s in my water. But you got to be ready for what that would take to clean all of those contaminants.

in India.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (20:23.907)
Uh-huh.

Just for the record, nothing is a hundred percent. You know, we can get 99.999%. But some of those contaminants, we can reduce and remove a lot of those through home filtration. But the remainder of those that might show up might not be able to be removed or drastically reduced through just whole home filtration, unless you jump all the way to whole home RO, which.

Mm-hmm.

conversation to more energy, more waste. So, you know, we’ve designed the most effective system to reduce and remove those surface contaminants, including PFOS and THMs actually. But a lot of those are only removed through RO. So you’re a lot out there that, know, fluoride, fluoride is a big issue, you know. Really the only way to remove that is mechanically through distillation or reverse osmosis. So when we…

Offer a system. do a package system. So it’s a whole home system and one included under the counter drinking water system for RO So you have that better than bottled water quality, you know, if you’re ingesting, you know You’re removing that fluoride correctly not through some you know Whatever tank that you know says they do because not going to

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:34.617)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:46.979)
Right. Yeah. Can you lean into that a little bit more? Because I think this is where the majority of us start to get really, really confused. Because when you go to any water, water filtration, water for purification brands website, it’s, I think it’s pretty obvious that they’re going to make their product seem like it solves all your issues and it’s the best one on the market. I really highlighting the things they do well and maybe expressing things in a way that isn’t

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (22:16.331)
super nuanced to how water filtration works. So can you talk a little bit more maybe about like the different types of filtration purification systems on the market, what they actually are doing, what they can’t do, and then what that like ideal system is. And also if we need to start with defining the difference between filtration and purification.

So we’re just, we’re filtering, we’re purifying. There’s a couple of different standards there. know, filtration has its own set of rules and standards and purification does as well. I think for the whole home, a lot of the systems are, you know, filtration. You know, then when you get into RO, then now you’re talking about more purification aspects. you want to, filtration for a whole home. You know, a lot of the tank systems that are out there,

There are traditional tanks. The problem with those is they’re usually, if you’re buying them from an off the shelf online, they’re probably filling it with very cheap carbon, which is probably only going to address chlorine. And that is going to get exhausted fairly quickly. And that’s kind of the problem with tanks, South systems is that they sit there.

And someone has them for six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years. The silhouette makes you think that it’s there and it’s working, but the internals is exhausted. It’s oversaturated. It’s turned in, it’s created hard, hard segments in the media inside of it. So the water’s just passing through it. It’s not even doing what it is designed to do when you first got it. So that’s kind of an issue with the tank systems, removing chlorine.

big misconception out there is that a water softener is a, is a filter, like to remove contaminants. it’s kind of a, a crossroads there. So when we’re talking with someone, if you want to address the hardness, that’s its own process in its own tank or, or media. then sidestep from that, then you start talking about contaminant removal. So the hardness is going to be mainly calcium in the water.

TOny Pennington (24:38.606)
So what you’re doing is you, if you want to remove that, then that has to be done through like an ion exchange resin. So that’s usually a water softener or a scale adjuster. And then you get into contaminant removal with a tank style or a cartridge, a flow through cartridge with certain medias inside that for addressing contaminants.

What does the difference between, well, maybe we’ll get into this. yeah, how is what you guys are doing different? And let’s kind of restate everything that we just talked about, meaning like, so a lot of people are maybe just getting tank filtration with some carbon in it. That’s not really removing much more than just fluoride. What does your whole home system look like?

Um, so our, our design is it’s a, so we basically reverse engineered our system, uh, from many years working in the field, uh, pain points, even from a maintenance perspective, uh, all of our systems that are like modular, um, so we can build them to size any home, um, or process. And ours are really based off a ultra filtration membrane, um, which is a membrane which filters down to 0.015 micron.

I believe that’s the same micron size more or less used in blood dialysis. So we incorporate that to address bacteria, mechanically address bacteria, virus, cysts in the water. It’s great for boiler alerts. So you’re protected even on a whole home level. And then right after that, the membrane, we have developed a quick connect cartridge.

which we include a 0.2 micron carbon block in there with some scale control. And that’s really kind of the workhorse of the process there. So that’s going to be removing, that’s designed to actually address chlorine and chloramine, PFOS, THMs, heavy metals. And some of those are complete reduction, 99.99 % reduction. Some of those vary in other aspects.

TOny Pennington (26:56.664)
But then that’s why we include the drinking water system in there to just kind of finish all that off, whatever’s remaining in there. But the kind of the beauty behind the design is that there are no moving parts. So there’s nothing really to break as far as gears and electronics in that regard. It’s very low waste and all the filter cartridges are quick connect cartridges.

So, you know, speaking back to a traditional tank style system, if it’s just sitting there, you don’t know if it’s, if the media is still absorbing contaminants. well, when it’s time to change these filters, quick connect, you change them out, very easy process. And now you have the peace of mind that your media is replenished and you’re back starting just with a new system like you did when you purchased it on day one. So I designed this to be like, I mean,

Hmm.

ultimately, like hopefully the last system you’ll ever have to buy because you’re replacing the medias when they need to be very easily.

What does it look like for maybe like a more traditional tank system? What is replacing that even look like?

TOny Pennington (28:08.654)
Replacing a tank system is very, very cumbersome. It’s hours of work. You need shop backs and you get extremely messy and dirty. If you’re not careful, you’ll break the downpipe. You’ll break the distributor inside the tank. You need to re-bed that with rock in the bottom and then size the media properly. Then you have to get rid of the media that you pulled out. It’s a big, it’s an involved process.

Yeah, well, one thing I want to lean in on even a little bit more specifically, a point you’re making is that I think this is sometimes what happens when you’re reading water company information. It might say something like our tank removes, you know, has been shown to remove 99.999 % of fluoride. Because I understand the water industry much deeper, what they’re not saying is for how long?

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (29:05.422)
Sure.

Meaning like that maybe that maybe that carbon in that tank system does remove all of the fluoride, but only I’m making up a random number only up to 100 gallons of water. I know that’s nothing, but I’m just making up a number.

Right, right. And that’s where the lines don’t intersect, right? It might be a statement that is able to be gotten away with for their purposes, but yeah, you don’t know and then you’re just trusting that that’s a true statement.

Right. The deeper question that the consumer isn’t trained to know to ask is, okay, maybe you did do a test and it found that when water passed through the system once, it removed 99.99 % of the fluoride, but when did it stop removing it? Was it after 10 minutes, 20 minutes, two years, three years? And like, that’s not the information that’s being publicly shared because what the consumer doesn’t understand is

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (30:01.421)
Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:12.343)
they can legally say it removes fluoride even if it only removes it for 10 minutes.

He

TOny Pennington (30:18.7)
Right, or a certain amount if they’re not making a statement of completely or up to or 100%, you know, or just the name, right? I mean, who knows?

Yeah, yeah. So just something to kind of understand, how…

How can they get that information of like, okay, so how much fluoride is this actually removing? Is that something they just have to ask a company directly or for example, when it comes to your guys’ products, what does that change, filter change look like?

for the whole home system? So that’s a great question. A lot of companies out there can’t, they just arbitrarily tell you, you know, once a year, you know, call us in a year, we’ll replace it in a year. Sometimes that is not a necessary timeline or correct timeline because, you know, the water hasn’t, everyone’s water usage is different. So again, in our package, we include a leak detection

Yeah, let’s start there.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (31:15.363)
everyone’s water usage is different.

TOny Pennington (31:22.914)
device that is approved for homeowners insurance and has an auto shutoff valve inside of it. We can get into that later, but it also records volume. So the cartridges are rated for a certain volume of gallons. And when that volume is reached, that’s when you know the media has exhausted its capacity and it’s time to change those filters. So there’s a real time way to address the filter change timeline.

And that way, you know, it’s also not, you’re not spending money when you don’t need to, or you’re spending money when you need to, to do those changes.

Yeah, I think that’s such a good point. I do want to get into that monitoring system more because a hundred percent. mean, they’re, giving an arbitrary number that is not like, come to that person whatsoever. If you have six people living in your home, your water consumption is going to be completely different than someone who has three people living in their home. Even if you have the same size home.

Right, right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (32:26.177)
And so you might not need to replace your filters every six months or even every year, but the water company is going to have no way to tell you when you actually need to change them. If there’s not some kind of water usage monitoring that’s happening. And I think that’s really one of the things that makes you guys stand out so much is that water usage monitoring.

It is, it is. an important feature. It also records temperature and pressure and gives you like all the backend consumption, your carbon footprint on water usage. It breaks it down through the app and really provides updates there and can send you notifications. can set a custom set up to close if you don’t respond. It’ll close off your water if it detects, you know, it learns your water usage.

So it’s really a good device. And a lot of homes in California now can’t even get homeowners insurance without a leak detection installed. So we’re offering that as a complete comprehensive, like I said, package. We try not to a la carte anything because we want to be sure you’re covered, protected, receiving filtered water, and the accountability is there as well.

Yeah, completely. Well, and I just think that’s what makes, again, that’s what makes you guys different. Other water companies don’t want that monitoring because they maybe know their systems aren’t removing things at a certain point, or they just don’t, you know, they’re not taking the time to really go super, super in depth with it. And that’s why I love working with and interviewing and introducing my audience to companies like you guys who are so invested in

the client’s wellbeing, the health, providing the absolute best system. You guys are always, and I know because I lived with the owner of your company for eight years, but he is always, always, always thinking about the next best thing he can bring in. How can we improve our products? How can we offer a more comprehensive product? And that’s something that I can get behind and that I can feel really excited and confident to introduce my audience to.

TOny Pennington (34:23.757)
Cheers.

TOny Pennington (34:40.716)
Absolutely, and you know I have the same perspective. It’s just there’s a lot of there’s a lot of new advances out there in the water industry and things are always changing Especially the quality of the water so it’s you know you’ve got to keep up on You know solutions that are out there Of course we want them to be user-friendly because that’s really you know a lot of time I have a conversation with builders and homeowners, and you know it’s not just about

the initial purchase of the product. It’s also about how you’re going to the relationship of that ongoing, right? There’s many things that we have to maintain in our household and in our lifestyle. So it’s, you want to be sure it’s working properly and providing what it’s, you know, providing, and then your relationship with that ongoing maintenance or the care, you know, it’s a, it’s a two way street. It cares for you. You care for it. You know, you’re going to have to change something at some point. making that, you know, ongoing relationship.

with the maintenance or whatever is important as well.

Yeah, yeah. Two things I’ll really quickly note when Omid and I were together. One, I remember him talking about, even though there’s advancements, it actually takes the water industry so many years as like a whole to integrate new advancements. He’s like, they’re, you know, they’re 10 years behind with the tech.

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (36:04.077)
And they’re so slow to integrate change. And that’s one of the things that he was so excited about. And he’s so good at is being so far ahead of the curve and bringing new things in and new products and new upgrades so much faster and integrating them so much faster than everyone else.

Right, right, and integrating them properly, right? So we do a lot of testing, NSF certified lab testing to be sure that we receive these certificates of approvals that they actually does what it says it, what we say it does. One of the big advancements that we’re also incorporating is a LED version of UV ultraviolet light, which is

a huge step forward in the non-chemical sanitization of water instead of it’s a chlorine option in some cases, right? Or non-chlorine option. And that UV is a game changer in the water industry, in the hospital space, in providing clean drinking water in remote locations. can be run off solar. It’s very low power consumption and

The UV bulbs that have been used for years and years and years are vapor-based mercury bulbs, and those are toxic. Not in the water, but when you get rid of that bulb and that bulb isn’t taken out properly, there’s just a lot of outdated attributes to that. So we’re using an LED version of that.

Yeah, I’m so excited to get more, especially because I want to spend more time on just the drinking water specifically. But one other point I want to make that really, when I learned this, it really shocked me is most, most salesmen for water companies are not water specialists. They’re salesmen. They do not have any advanced training in water filtration and purification. And that is very, very specific advanced training.

TOny Pennington (38:04.034)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:14.713)
They’re trained on what the product is and they’re trained on how to sell it, but they are not water specialists. And in fact, when Omid told me this, I felt completely mind blown. Most water companies don’t have water specialists on their team. They’re getting a product from somewhere. They’re, you know, integrating into their brand and then they’re having their salesmen sell it. And at no point is there actually a water specialist on their team.

Is it?

TOny Pennington (38:20.302)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:41.871)
training people on what this is and how to use it appropriately and answer questions thoroughly and with nuance. And I think that is really, really profound. I know that Omid is a master water specialist, which is actually the highest certification you can get. I think there’s only like 200 in the world. Yeah. And so just like there is chemistry involved, there is science involved, there is so much more involved. And I just think that’s something to hold and know even just for the consumer is

It’s pretty amazing.

TOny Pennington (39:10.402)
Mm-hmm.

When you’re talking to a salesman about a product, keep in mind that they’re probably not a water specialist. They probably don’t have advanced training in water. They’re just trained on what this product is. And I think you really want to be asking, is there a water specialist on your team?

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (39:29.292)
Right, right. I mean, that’s, that’s, there’s a couple of questions that you could ask out of the gate before you even get in deep conversation with, you know, discussing water filtration and, you know, licenses and certifications are at the forefront of that, you know.

Yeah, can you walk us through what some of those questions might be and what answers we’re looking for?

TOny Pennington (39:50.04)
want to see if ask if water certified you know person on

TOny Pennington (39:58.062)
their team if they understand water chemistry. If they have any licenses, NSF certifications, be sure the products show that. And really just ask your own questions that on top of those, they’re going to make you feel more confident with that knowledge.

Yeah. Okay. Let’s get into drinking water filtration. And I think this is going to be the big one, even though you’ve already said, and I’ll highlight it. The ideal is that you have a whole home filtration purification system that’s removing a lot, but then you also have that drinking water sp- moving a lot and it really, really takes it to the next level and kind of get into a couple-

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (40:47.854)
Mm-hmm.

of things here. One, maybe a little bit of a reiteration of why the whole home system. I know you guys, work with estates, you work with many, many celebrities and famous people who want literally an RO system coming out of their toilet. That’s expensive. That’s not realistic for the average person. And so that’s why we are, you’re creating that whole home.

Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:18.137)
whole home system that’s removing a lot of it, but it’s not absolutely necessary that that removes everything. And so we’ll talk about that a little bit more, but I do then want to talk about how your guys is drinking water system is different from a lot of the systems on the market and how it’s really such an up-leveled system.

Yeah, yeah. So the whole home system, mean, I usually approach water as working water throughout the home. So that’s kind of more like, it kind of explains itself. you’re washing dishes, washing clothes, flushing toilets, bathing, showering. So removing a lot of the immediate contaminants through a low waste, low energy.

very robust system is kind of where we meet that apex point in budget. Because I’m going to be realistic. Budget is always the, you know, usually, usually the determining factor. I mean, you can go as high as you want and build a mini water treatment plant with RO for your home if, it’s within your budget. But, you know, even for like myself, you know, it’s, I need a budget friendly system that I know is, is the best system.

Doctor.

TOny Pennington (42:34.158)
for that, for my investment. So we’re addressing, like I said, the surface contaminants, chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, heavy metals, and then with the drinking water system getting down to trace pharmaceuticals, trace hormones, fluoride, and more of those deeper level contaminants that just a flow through a whole home system won’t remove.

Yeah. And I want to lean into why, cause I think someone listening could go, no, no, no. I want my whole house system to remove everything. But what were the point we’re making here is that’s possible. And you guys have built out those systems. know you have. they’re incredibly expensive because to remove that much contamination at that large of a scale is incredibly.

Okay.

TOny Pennington (43:11.982)
Yeah, there’s a few out there.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (43:24.907)
expensive. That’s a really, really big system. But the point I want to make for the average consumer is, know, you, when you’re removing all those surface contaminants, it’s okay if you’re showering in something then, cause you’re not really going to be absorbing it through a shower, even removing those in a bath. Like you’re not really going to be absorbing much of what’s left, but you want to get to that fine, fine ultra micron level of filtration and purification when it comes to the things you’re actually ingesting, which is that drinking water.

Sure.

TOny Pennington (43:50.35)
Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (43:54.424)
Correct. And even the home system in, you know, depending on the water quality, the supply water quality, wherever you live, some places are a lot worse, some places are better. I mean, the home system might even still be providing better quality than the bottled water you’re buying. Like, you know, because the bottled water out there isn’t that great either. you know, your home system is providing, you know, great filtered water.

and then adding that for the drinking water system for drinking, cooking, noodles, rice, you know, those things, it’s a level up for sure.

Yeah, yeah. So let’s do a little compare and contrast. How is your guys’s drinking system different from what’s commonly on the market?

Our drinking water system is great. It is also quick connect cartridge design. So I’m talking to the people out there that have attempted to change their own RO filters and have to use filter wrench keys and can’t get things off and bust their knuckles trying to get them off and get water everywhere. Ours are quick connect cartridge design. So it’s just quarter turn quick connect cartridge done in 10 minutes.

And then the filtration is reverse osmosis. So it’s a six, six stage, seven stage reverse osmosis, pre sediment, pre carbon RO and then alkaline cartridge, post sediment and polishing carbon. And then we include the LED ultraviolet light on there to protect the holding tank from any potential.

TOny Pennington (45:36.782)
build up in there of bacteria or anything. that’s a big part that’s missing from most under the counter drinking water RO systems is they don’t sell or install a ultraviolet light for that redundant protection. So that’s a great thing to have in line. That way you know your tank is staying sanitized as well. And then our reverse osmosis membrane is actually a high efficiency, low waste membrane.

Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (46:00.099)
Yeah.

TOny Pennington (46:06.702)
So which is a new law in California that are that under the counter, R.O.’s have to meet. So a lot of the R.O.’s are very high waste ratio. Ours is the lowest on the market right now. So in R.O., there is always going to be, you know, waste. But we’re about as efficient as you can be with the technology that’s out there right now.

Yeah. So I’m going to break this down because we threw out a lot of words that might not be familiar to the audience. So seven, no, that’s okay. Seven stage filtration. If we can, could we go into why each of those stages is there and how that might be different than another system on the market? You know, for example, I know that there’s a lot of things that are like a three stage filtration, maybe a five stage filtration. Why does yours have seven stages? What is that doing that?

the standard ones aren’t? And why are each of those, what would you call them? Why are those cartridges there?

the cartridges or stages.

So the seven stage actually incorporates the whole home system being the first stage. So if you’re getting a package, the whole home system is the first stage and then you’re actually filtering the water after that through RO with less of a contaminant load. So it’s going to be even more efficient at removing remainders. So the system, the RO system itself is six stage. So you have a pre sediment that’s removing larger.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:27.023)
of

TOny Pennington (47:37.206)
contaminants, anything that might break away from a pipe or sand, silt, anything down that’s visible. That’s removing a lot of iron in the pipes or older pipes. There’s old homes that have iron or…

Or maybe…

or I mean, some homes still have galvanized plumbing, which is horrible. So that first sediment, that sediment to remove the larger contaminants. Yeah. And then the second stage is like a pre-carbon. So that’s removing any residual chlorine from the water. That’s great for the contaminant removal for health reasons.

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (48:09.241)
contaminants.

TOny Pennington (48:24.984)
but it also needs to remove the chlorine to protect the RO membrane, which is the next stage. So the chlorine will destroy the RO membrane quicker if it’s not removed. So removing the chlorine at the second stage adds longevity and efficiency to the RO membrane to do what it needs to do. After the RO membrane, we have a remineralization cartridge.

Well, real quick, what’s the RO removing?

Reverse osmosis is removing over 30,000 contaminants in the water. So that’s getting down to tracer. Oh man, I want me to, no. I cannot. I can lose some people on that one.

Could you list every single one? No, I’m kidding. I don’t have time here. Sorry, I can’t tell you. But some of the big ones that RO removes.

pharmaceuticals, hormones, fluoride, and then the list goes on and on and on. mean, the remainder heavy metals, hardness. so there’s, it’s this, the deep, the deep level contaminants that, you know, you need to be concerned about. and then after that we remineralize the, the pure, filtered water. So.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (49:33.998)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (49:41.038)
Yeah.

And that’s an important stage because RO water on its own is acidic and aggressive. So that’s going to, you be, it’s not really what you want to be drinking over and over and over. So we add potassium, magnesium, calcium, and a little bit of sodium for electrolytes back into the water immediately, which boosts the pH and alkalinity to make it antioxidant as well.

Yeah, I want to lean into that as well as the UV for a second, because again, these are kind of the nuanced things that the general consumer I don’t think would know. So one, if you have an RO system without a remineralizing cartridge as a part of it, you’re in trouble.

Right.

TOny Pennington (50:31.342)
Yeah, I mean you’re removing contaminants and that’s if the RO membrane is working properly and is pre-filtered properly. But correct, there’s no benefit.

great.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (50:42.849)
Exactly. But there’s a big difference. The point I’m making there is the water is clean, but if it’s actually doing what it’s supposed to, it is actually removing not just the contaminants, but the minerals in the water, which means if you are just drinking that straight as is, it’s almost like you’re drinking distilled water. And that actually over long, long periods of time can start to, because you’re going to need those minerals and electrolytes, like the body starts to pull that from our bones.

Mm-hmm.

So long-term you need an RO system with a remineralization cartridge at the end of it.

Correct, correct, to reintroduce those minerals back into the water for those reasons.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So you want, you want to clean the water first and then you want to make sure that those minerals are getting added back in. And so if you are looking at a system that either is RO and doesn’t have a remineralizing cartridge, that’s like a flat out no. Or something that I remember Omid would tell me is, you know, this is how uneducated the water companies are themselves. They’ll have the whole, they’ll have the system and they’ll have the remineralizing cartridge.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (51:54.221)
before the RO. So they’re adding minerals to the water and then they’re sending it through the RO and just removing them again. And so it’s like these companies don’t even understand the basic chemistry and function of how to process and then remineralize water.

Yeah.

TOny Pennington (52:08.354)
Yeah. And that blows my mind because I’ve seen it on systems that I’ve removed and I’m just like, it’s almost like they purposely installed it backwards to play a joke on me or something. You know, it’s just like, it’s, it’s, it’s backwards.

It’s so nonsensical. It’s like hard to even wrap your head around. Yeah.

Right, right. The mineral, the remineralization process needs to be placed correctly in the stage.

Right, basically at the end, right before it goes into the tank.

not yet. Not yet. have a, there’s a, there’s one more post polishing carbon, which is, is like a, it’s one more polishing carbon to remove any, anything that might get through like the aura membrane. It’s like a taste and it’s a polish. We call it a polishing carbon because it’s a taste in odor carbon. And it’s just like a second redundant carbon just to kind of polish off that, give it one more little whip through the, through the filtration process. And then.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:38.007)
Okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:42.168)
Okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:59.704)
Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (53:06.23)
into the tank.

Yeah, I love it. So if you have an RO system that has no remineralizing filter, big no-no. But then if you have an RO system, check where your remineralizing filter is. Because if it’s before the RO, you have a big, big problem too. Yep. Okay, I do want to touch lastly, really quickly before we close on the UV component, because this is also something that really makes you guys stand out, which is…

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (53:19.726)
Sure.

in the wrong spot. Yep.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (53:35.425)
What a lot of people don’t understand is you have a whole maybe under the counter reverse osmosis system. To be able to have access to that water all the time, it’s going into a storage tank, maybe like a three gallon storage tank that’s underneath the counter.

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (53:49.646)
Correct, yeah.

If that water is sitting there, it’s just another place where pathogens could start to replicate if nothing is being done. And especially if the filtration and purification system isn’t that good to begin with, those pathogens can be getting through that whole system. Then they’re in this tank of sitting water and they can start to kind of reproduce and thrive. So tell it like kind of reiterate that UV component to this.

Sure. Yeah. So the ultraviolet light, that does is that’s protecting from any bacterial growth in that tank that’s going to propagate because the system wasn’t maintained properly in front of it. Right. So if you haven’t changed your filters in five years and you get a bacteria in there, then it’s going to settle in that tank and accumulate and then affect the drinking water quality. the UV is there to protect and destroy anything.

that potentially would be there. We’re not saying it happens all the time. It’s just in that isolated environment of that depth of filtration, it needs to be on there for safety.

Yeah, just to that end, like the level of redundancies you guys have is all for the protection and optimal health of the client. And it’s just a level of attention you guy attention and intention you guys bring to your products that I don’t really see with any other company on the market from the, you know, the whole home system to

Leigh Ann Lindsey (55:28.589)
the sixth stage drinking water system to UV light to the water monitoring leak detection system. That’s all a part of it. You guys really do cover every single facet.

We really do try to incorporate it all in residential. I mean, we know how difficult the conversations are and just getting the peace of mind. So we just want to know what we’re, everyone to know what we’re applying and how we’re managing that and providing the best. So.

I love it. Even though this was super comprehensive, it is such a broad topic. So I’m sure people will want to be able to get in touch, chat a little bit more. Where can people find you guys? us maybe the website, but also do you guys have any kind of, you know, free console or a way that people can get in touch and just ask more questions to find what could be right for them?

Mm-hmm.

TOny Pennington (56:20.43)
Sure. Just going to our website is going to be the best way to start. Waterserviceelite.com. Just take a few minutes and browse through our drop down menus at the top. do have a way to contact us. You can submit forms. There’s questionnaires there. You can answer a couple quick questions. We do go with a more detailed approach. We do need information about your property, what you’re trying to accomplish, and the problems you’re having.

and all that. we also have, you can see all of our systems. We actually have a drop down menu of past installations. So outside of just the marketing aspect of, you know, what we’re presenting, you can go in and see what it actually looks like after it’s done in real time.

Yeah, that’s amazing. Thank you so much, Tony. This was a long time coming.

I know, there’s so many questions.

I know, I know. I’m sure again, like to the audience, definitely reach out because they are the water specialists. They have certifications. They have that advanced training. So they’re going to be able to answer questions that other companies.

TOny Pennington (57:31.502)
Correct, correct. We can answer questions and if we don’t know, we’ll do the research and provide the correct answer.

Yeah, but you guys have really seen it all. Like, always more to learn. like, my god, some of the intense projects you guys have done on massive, massive states where the you know, just the complexity of the project, the water.

I’m still learning. I’m still learning a lot.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (57:57.987)
the piping, all of it. mean, there is not a problem yet that you guys haven’t been able to solve, but it’s because you guys apply yourself. And if you don’t know something, you do do the research. And so it’s just really, really cool.

Yeah, yeah. it’s, I’ve learned a lot working with so many different teams across the United States and just their approach to getting the job done kind of mentality as well. So it’s, it’s, like to show up and speak on behalf of the water, you know, in, projects.

Yeah, completely.