THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 189

Ep. 189 FINAL

[00:00:00] Hello, welcome back to the Accrescent Podcast. I’m your host, Leigh Ann Lindsey. Today we have a returning guest, Dr. Stephanie Peacock on the podcast to talk all about mast cell activation syndrome. She was previously on the podcast to talk all about mold, mold, toxicity, detoxing for mold, and I just absolutely loved how integrative, holistic, and thorough she was in everything that she talks about and presents.

But she really is a mold and mast cell activation syndrome expert. And before getting into today’s episode, what I wanted to quickly share is after my previous interview with Dr. Peacock, I decided that I wanted to work with her one-on-one to support my own mold detoxing. And I have since had my first full 90 minute consultation with her, and she was phenomenal.

I did some extra, she recommended some extra [00:01:00] mold testing that I did at home for myself just to kind of check in with where my levels were at, and she was so thorough, explained everything so in depth, gave me such a cohesive, but really I think, accessible protocol to follow for the next couple of months.

And I am so excited to be able to work with her and start to feel better because even though I’m no longer in a place with mold, you know, one of the things I learned in my conversation with her on the podcast is that mold can start to colonize within the body. So just because you’re no longer in a mold.

Or moldy location doesn’t mean that that mold is just going to naturally detox on its own. And I have definitely been dealing with a number of different lingering symptoms and my recent mold test shows that I still have very high levels of mold in my body. So I’m so excited. I’m a couple weeks in and [00:02:00] already feeling.

A lot better, which is such a good feeling considering some of the symptoms I’ve been dealing with for over a year plus now have been pretty severe and they’re really hard to get through on a lot of days. So I wanted to share that little personal testimony of my experience with her, not just professionally on the podcast, but personally as a client of hers.

She’s so phenomenal and well educated, empathetic, you know, well, well versed, and it was such a joy and I’m so excited to have her, you know, as a part of my team on this journey. But for those who have never heard Dr. Peacock before, I’ll give a little bit of an introduction. Dr. Stephanie Peacock is a holistic doctor with a fully virtual consulting practice.

She specializes in gut health, environmental toxin burden syndromes with her practice, primarily revolving around mold toxicity and mast cell activation syndrome. Mast cell activation syndrome is when the body becomes [00:03:00] hypersensitive to everything in its environment, resulting in widespread symptoms that may seem unexplainable.

Different environmental toxins such as mold can actually be at the root cause of it. Dr. Stephanie personally experienced 10 years of chronic digestive symptoms, sibo, sifo, mold toxicity, and mast cell activation syndrome. She sought doctor after doctor with no one being able to explain the wide variety of symptoms she was experiencing.

She decided to become her own advocate, and through her research discovered she was experiencing mast cell activation syndrome from mold exposure and Epstein-Barr virus. Her love for holistic health started as a competitive swimmer. Where she won multiple national and international events, ultimately leading to being the US Olympic team alternate in 2016.

Stephanie loves fueling herself with proper nutrition, mind-body practices, and exercise, which led her to getting a doctorate degree to help influence others feel their best. After training at True North [00:04:00] Health Center, a world renowned water fasting center, she went on to start her own consulting practice, which helps clients worldwide regain their health back.

As I was saying earlier, today, we’re focusing all on mast cell activation syndrome. Everything from what are mast cells. Why are they here? What are signs and symptoms of Mast cell activation syndrome, the common ones, and then some of the not so common ones, what a conventional medical approach to treating mast cell activation syndrome looks like.

And then what her holistic integrative root cause approach looks like in comparison. So please enjoy this conversation with Dr. Stephanie Peacock. Well, Dr. Peacock, welcome back to the Crescent Podcast. This is kind of fun because just for the audience, I don’t even know if they know we both live in Dana Point.

I know, and it’s been so sweet and special to develop a little bit of a friendship with you. So we’ve gone on some morning walks, we’ve met up for coffee. Yeah. [00:05:00] Um, and it’s been so sweet and special. To even just have that friendship, but also to be able to have you with your expertise on so many different things, come back on the podcast is really, really special.

So thank you for being here. Aw, thank you Leigh Ann. I’m like so excited to be back on your podcast. And I know, I think when I did the podcast with you last time, when we interview, when you interviewed me, we like, hadn’t really been hanging out that much and everything, but then it kind of like, just like transformed.

We were like, you know what? It’s crazy. We live like a few blocks from each other. Let’s hang out. And that’s what’s so special about this area is like we’ve been able to meet up and just talk and I, yeah, I’m so blessed and so grateful for all this. So thanks for having me again. Yeah, it’s so fun. And I was just telling you off air.

So we’re gonna be talking about MAs, cell activation syndrome. I don’t even know if I’m saying that right. This is, I’m usually pretty well versed in the topics I have people on. Yeah. This is one that I was like, Ooh, this seems a bit beyond me. So I, I think I have kind of a general idea of the flow of where we’ll go to make it really [00:06:00] comprehensive.

But also I’m really gonna trust you to, if I don’t ask the right questions, please guide us for where we need to go. But I think a really good place to start is if anyone is listening who has never heard of this. ’cause I imagine there’ll be people who listen, who are like, oh, I’ve been diagnosed with that, or I’m experiencing that.

Let me listen. Mm-hmm. And then there might be some who are going, whoa, I’ve never heard of that. What is that? Might I even have that, but let’s start with just what is it and then maybe we can go into signs and symptoms. Definitely. Definitely. So I’m really excited to take it anywhere with any question that you have.

’cause I know Mast Cell Activation Syndrome is starting to become more of like it’s, it’s been around for a very long time, but. Before it used to be considered multiple chemical sensitivity. That’s what it was called, because a lot of people with mast cell activation syndrome, they’re very sensitive to many things in their environment to the point where it can make people feel like they’re going truly insane because they’re reacting to so many different things.

So mast cell activation [00:07:00] syndrome in a nutshell is where our body’s mast cells, which are a big part of our immune system, they’re actually a white blood cell. They start to become haywire. And what I like to actually refer to them as trigger happy. Mm-hmm. And the reason they get that way is because they have been overstimulated to the point where the body no longer feels safe.

And I know we’ll dive into this a little bit later, but this is where we see a lot of limbic system dysregulation, nervous system dysregulation, things occurring as well alongside mast cell activation syndrome. Because everything, as you know, and I’m sure your listeners know, everything is so connected in the body.

But the reason why these symptoms can be so widespread and confusing as to why people have them is because these mast cells are actually located in every single part of our body except for our retina. So that that’s a part of the eye. So. They’re located everywhere, which is why there can be symptoms occurring in the gut, in the brain, on the skin, in the urinary tract, like everywhere, because [00:08:00] they’re, they can be, depending on which ones are overstimulated, those symptoms are arising in those specific areas.

So Mast activation Syndrome is just these. Um, our immune system has basically just become more haywire, more trigger happy, responding to many different things. And I wanted to touch on another condition that is different than mast cell activation syndrome. So mastocytosis is another condition that involves mast cells, but that is when, that’s a really rare genetic disorder where the body actually is making too many mast cells.

Mm-hmm. And that’s where the treatment is a hundred percent different. Most people that are dealing with the mast cell issue are dealing with. Activation Hyperactivation, the mast cell activation syndrome, and that’s basically a normal amount of mast cells in their body that had just become hyperstimulated.

Mm-hmm. Okay. And then to help us kind of understand what, what are some of the maybe common signs, signs and symptoms that you might be dealing with mast cell [00:09:00] activation, and then what might be some of those that are maybe a little more obscure or lesser known? Because I, I do think this is helpful. I, I would wager, I mean, you can tell me what you’ve seen in your practice that there might be a lot more people who are experiencing this that don’t realize it because the symptoms are so varied.

Exactly. You’re completely right. And we’re actually seeing a rise in symptoms in cases of mast cell activation syndrome. Actually, since Covid, and I actually have been saying this for years, and research is starting to come out on this topic, that mast cell activation syndrome that we’re seeing now is actually almost a form of long covid because their body, oh, has just become so hyperstimulated now, their body’s just starting to react to all different types of things in their environment.

But to your original question about what are some of the most common symptoms, so. It’s, again, these can be in any organ system. So really common symptoms typically occur in the digestive tract. So we can see, ’cause I, I should have prefaced this earlier as well. Mast cells are [00:10:00] located everywhere in the body, but they’re in hyper concentrated amounts in parts of the body that are in more contact with the outside world.

So like our digestive tract, our lungs, our skin, we see a lot of symptoms there. So I’ll start there. Digestive tract, we see a lot of nausea, constipation, as well as acid reflux and abdominal pain. Those are really common ones. So almost like IBS type symptoms. Hmm. Um, we also see symptoms on the skin, so like flushing, um, having like flushing symptoms, especially within 15 minutes of eating, that’s very, very common.

Um, having psoriasis, eczema, any type of skin conditions like that. Nervous system symptoms, so anxiety, insomnia, having any type of brain fog type symptoms. Those are really common as well. Lesser known symptoms that are really common that I typically see in my practice are pain and arthritic type symptoms that tend to move around a lot.

Oh, wow. That’s a really, really interesting one that I typically see a lot of frequent, uh, throat clearing, shortness of breath. Um, another one that I see in a lot of my [00:11:00] hypersensitive, um, client population. ’cause again, mast cell activation syndrome, it’s almost like a spectrum. Like there’s people that might like you, to your point earlier, yes they have this, but they’re functioning, they’re just having some symptoms here and there.

And there’s other people where it’s like they can barely get outta bed due to some symptoms that they’re experiencing ’cause they’re so sensitive. And in those, uh, individuals, a lot of people have like 20 or 30 seizures a day. So Oh wow. Seizures can be really common with that as well. Mm-hmm. And then alongside cardiovascular symptoms is the big one.

So experiencing almost like POTS like symptoms where it’s postural orthostatic tachycardic syndrome. So it’s where you stand up, your blood pressure drops, your heart rate increases. You can’t stand outside in the heat for very long because those symptoms will occur as well, so you feel dizzy and lightheaded.

So I’d say those are some of like the more type of common symptoms that I typically see in my practice. And the last thing I’ll say too is. Oh, I mentioned earlier because it used to be known as multiple chemical sensitivity, but it’s being just reactive to different [00:12:00] smells, fragrances, like people that are really, um, dealing with this condition for a long time cannot walk down like a laundry detergent aisle without having a symptom flare up.

Mm-hmm. So those are some of the symptoms. And I think just to, to lean in on that piece a little bit, because we were talking about, I, I shared on Instagram, we, I had a whole 90 minute consult with you from, for mold, mold detoxing and some mold toxicity I’m experiencing. Um, and we talked about this in that, in that consult a little bit of how there is a difference between.

When you cut out a lot of toxic chemicals and then you, you know, you do walk down the perfume mile in Macy’s, you smell it and it kind of hits you. But I think what you’re talking about with mast cell is it’s the difference between you smell it and you’re just like, oh my gosh, that is so intense. Mm-hmm.

And then you walk away and you’re fine. Versus maybe with mast cell it’s much more severe, like you smell it and then, I don’t know, what does that look like? You have a migraine the rest of the day your lymph is flaring. Yes. Okay. This is such a [00:13:00] great point. So, absolutely. Yeah. When we cut things out of our life that are, that are more toxic, like those different like fragrances and toxins and those types of products, and then we get exposed to ’em later, naturally our body’s used to not being exposed.

So we’ll have like maybe some like, like slight headache, some symptoms, but the moment you leave, you should be fine. When it comes to mast cell activation, ’cause this is the key in everyone’s treatment with getting better from MCAS is. Understanding that person’s unique triggers because not everyone’s going to respond negatively to chemicals or a sense and things like that, but a lot of people do, but not everyone will, right?

Same thing with foods. Certain foods are triggers, certain anything can be a trigger, so. In that specific case, yes. If those scents are that person’s trigger, they’ll have what we call a flare up that can last a few hours to a few days. Where a flare up that we, that we refer to in mast cell activation syndrome is basically an exposure to a known trigger [00:14:00] that then brings about that person’s more common symptoms.

And so a lot of those symptoms that I mentioned earlier and that you had just mentioned as well, depending on what their reactions and symptoms are, they will have that type of symptomatology pop up. So yes, like to your point. Was it a migraine? Is it a migraine? Is that a really common symptom they get?

Do they get hives all over their skin? Do they start to develop really severe gut issues? Do they have a seizure potentially? Like these are different types. It’s the spectrum. It’s a whole host of different symptoms. ’cause again, these mast cells line every part of the body, so the symptoms can be so widespread and multiple occurring at the same time too.

Mm-hmm. Right. I think that’s probably what can make it really, really confusing is you wanna try and pin it down to one thing, but you’re having gut symptoms and then you’re also having neurological symptoms. Yeah. And so you might go, well, it couldn’t have been the food. How is that da da? And you just kind of get lost in this loop that I think, as someone who’s experiencing that can be really overwhelming and confusing and you just start to feel helpless of being able to figure [00:15:00] out what is causing all of this.

Yep. Definitely. And, and that’s the hard part too, is that a lot of clients that I’ll see before they realized it was mast cell activation syndrome, because you know, at that point a lot of these people are, they’re seeing so many different specialists and doctors because they have the symptoms everywhere.

So they’re seeing a GI doctor, right? They’re seeing their PCP because they’re having all kinds of crazy, like flu-like symptoms, right? They’re seeing like neurologists because they’re having insane nervous system dysregulation type symptoms and, and so it’s so confusing and they’re seeing a whole host of different, you know, specialists until either somebody tells them your symptoms sound a lot like mass activation or they discovered on their own.

Mm-hmm. But yeah, it can make people feel like they’re going absolutely wild in their head because they’re just experiencing so many symptoms relating to triggers that they don’t realize are in their environment. Right. Completely. I think we, we talked about, I wanna do a deep dive in kind of the compare and contrast of what you know, if [00:16:00] you are in the conventional world.

Are they even talking about mast cell? If they are, what does the testing and treatment approach look like versus maybe what a more integrative, holistic approach might look like? But I, I kind of have a question first, and maybe I’ll ask it and then you can tell me if it makes sense to start there or if we really should come back to that later.

’cause what I’m wondering is I have only ever heard of mast cell in relation to mold. Yeah. And so is, is mold exposure the root cause of mast cell activation or are there other ways that this syndrome can be developed? Yeah, no, that’s a great question. So I’ll actually, I’ll start with that and then I’ll kind of go into like the different workups depending on like which type of practitioner you’re seeing.

So yeah, I would say I have yet to see a case of mast cell activation syndrome that wasn’t caused from a mold exposure, but. Okay, actually. So that hasn’t been caused or where mold wasn’t part of the picture. Mm-hmm. Because again, with exposures to different [00:17:00] things in our environment, like our bodies are really great at helping to detox things out, but then we sort of reach like a tipping point, right?

So that tipping point could be maybe someone had a mold exposure, like when they were 10 years old and then they’re 30 years old, they’re living in like a moldy apartment or something like that. Or, or maybe not even a moldy apartment, but they got covid, right? So then there’s that trigger, that inciting event that then created like, oh, here comes the mold toxins outta the system, other exposures that somebody’s had, as well as they’re dealing with this huge viral load that’s weakened their immune system, and now mast cells are starting to become hyperstimulated from that.

So. It could be like, like mold was part of their picture, but wasn’t like that inciting event, but it’s there and we have to get the mold toxins out because now their immune system is so hypervigilant that it’s not being able to respond to helping to try to like put out those different fires. Mm-hmm. So that’s a part of it.

Um, the second piece is, is that yes, mold exposure like can be like one of the biggest, biggest root causes of it as well. Mm-hmm. But there’s [00:18:00] other root causes that I typically see too. So mold exposure is really part of the picture for most people, but not everybody. Um, trauma is a huge one. So like emotional or physical trauma that is been, I’ve had quite a few clients where that has been like their main root cause is that piece and needing to assess that part.

Um, another one actually is parasites. That’s a big one that can actually be a really big one. Someone traveled to outside the country and then all of a sudden comes back with a whole array of different types of symptoms. That can be a big one as well. Um, chronic. Weak barriers. So this is one that I have actually more so discovered in my personal practice, uh, is.

People having weak barriers, whether they had a concussion, so it opened up their blood brain barrier or their gut barrier has been compromised for a very long time. Those two barriers are meant to keep our bodies safe. They’re like less than a cell wall thick and meant to provide that protection so that way our bodies can function [00:19:00] optimally.

But if those are compromised, then we’re more exposed things in our environment and that can trigger a hyper, hyper mast cell activation as well. Because we have a lot of mast cells that are very present in the brain tissue and that are also present in the gut as well. So if somebody’s been dealing with leaky gut, sibo, sifo, anything like that for a long time, or a history of a lot of concussions, then we can typically see a mast cell activation response.

So, yeah. So I hope that answered that question. I’m happy to start to dive into the next piece, which is kind of the conventional and holistic workups when it comes to mast cell. Yes, I’ll, well, I’ll say two things. One, I see you smiling, ’cause we’ve talked about my six concussions I’ve had and how concussions sort of paired with mold toxicity is a really, really nasty combination.

But I think the, the one thing I’ll just sort of mirror back is what I’m hearing is it’s rarely just one soul root cause. There might be the one biggest contributor, like. The mold was the biggest contributor, or the thing that was taking [00:20:00] up the most of the body’s capacity, the concussion, the trauma that’s been unprocessed or unresolved.

But it, it’s sort of that like, and now we’ve reached peak capacity. This big thing happened and it was big and it’s taking up a lot of capacity, but then these other couple little things happened that just totally, you know, was the, the thing that tipped the camel’s back. Yep. Pretty much. Mm-hmm. Yes. So you’ve never seen it be just one soul thing.

It might be one big, big contributor, but then there’s oftentimes other smaller contributors that need to be looked at too. Exactly. And, and something I wanna also mention I didn’t mention earlier is that Yes, because, because it is these different things that have been piling up for potentially decades, it’s.

So what happens is then the body, right? It potentially was having some form of mast activation syndrome like the whole time. But because they were minor symptoms, someone wasn’t really noticing them. Like for [00:21:00] example, maybe someone was having some, some like some weird skin itching, like constantly every time they ate something or you know, maybe like they just noticed that they felt really off when they did walk down like a scented aisle or something, right?

Or, or maybe they were having migraines, but everyone has migraines, right? So, you know, maybe that’s like the big, so you know, they were having some form of it. But over time the mast cells get more and more agitated because their basic job, and I wanna make sure I mention this, is to protect us. That is why they become so trigger happy.

They are a part of our immune system. So when they sense a threat, their whole. Goal is to provide us with protection. And so the reason we’re having mass activation syndrome is not because our bodies hate us and having all these different symptoms, but it’s because they, it thinks we’re under a constant threat.

Because of the things that have been piling up for years. And then that one triggering inciting event that occurred that now the body’s like, I don’t feel safe anymore. So now I’ve developed sensitivities to foods to sense, to any, to stress, to [00:22:00] everything. Mm-hmm. And so then it starts to develop a lot of those symptoms.

And so yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s rarely just one thing, like when I, and especially too when I’ll talk to a client who’s like, they just moved into a moldy environment two months later. Horrible mast cell symptoms. But I will see, okay, there’s probably not probably, but you know, I’ll talk to ’em, I’m like, oh, you’ve had two other mold exposures before, or you went through a lot of childhood trauma.

Mm-hmm. Or your gut has been having symptoms for a very long time. You’ve been dealing chronic candida overgrowth. Right. Like these different things I’m seeing kind of like add up and then that one mold exposure just tip them over the edge. So yeah, to your point is that there’s definitely a lot of different things that can be contributing.

Well, and I think what’s powerful to understand what’s going on with mast cell is. Well, two things I’ll say one, because it can be from things that have been piling up for maybe even decades. I think that’s what can make it even harder to pinpoint it to something, because you are not gonna immediately think, oh, this could be related to my [00:23:00] concussion from two years ago.

Oh, this could be related to the mold I was exposed to 10 years ago. So I think so many of us might be racking our brains to go, well, what is different in my environment recently? And there might be something, right? Maybe it’s, I just had covid recently. Maybe there was a recent injury or a recent super acute stressor that happened.

Yeah. But I think it really takes an expert like you to do that deeper digging to understand more pieces of the puzzle. But the second thing I wanted to point out is why understanding it is so helpful is I could see, you know, myself included. You know, oh, I noticed that I get this certain reaction whenever I eat this food, so I guess I can just never eat this food again.

Mm-hmm. I see that I have this type of reaction, um, when I’m out in the sun. I guess I just can’t be out in the sun anymore and, and are, we start to cut things out that aren’t really the root cause. Yeah. That’s not to say that people can’t have food allergies and there’s not other different things, right.

That maybe we should avoid for a time. But when we [00:24:00] understand maybe the deeper picture of what could be going on and you sue that mast cell activation, maybe those foods become available to you again, maybe being outside in the sun for longer periods of time becomes available to you again. And I think that’s the freedom in it when we understand some of the deeper root causes.

Yes. And that is like a perfect segue into like how there’s like such a difference between like the workups that will happen in like the conventional model versus more of like the functional med is and holistic model. Because again. Yes, we have to under the biggest underlying piece in all this, and before I dive into the differences, is really understanding what the triggers are.

But simultaneously, while we’re avoiding those triggers, we’re adding things into supplement with that. So that way the body, we’re not restricting too much on the body because what will happen is if we do try to cut the everything out, the mast cells will then going that much time without being exposed to them.

We’ll start to sense those as a threat, even though they’re not a bad thing. [00:25:00] Mm-hmm. So like we can cut out whole food groups when we try to add them back in. If we didn’t stabilize, which we’ll dive into, then the mast cells can become more reactive to those things, and that’s why people. Will be very confused.

It’s very confusing. Understandably so, because they try to cut these things out and then they try to add ’em back in and they’re reactive to those things again, like multiple things, even more than they used to be. And so that’s where this whole journey can be absolutely confusing because it’s like the sensitivities to different things in the environment start to just totally add up.

And so, and that’s the difference really between the different models. So in terms of like a treatment perspective, like what we wanna do in terms of, um, supporting someone, typically in the conventional model, it’s really just, can we, oh, so I’m so sorry. Could we start with testing? How does, is, is testing different?

Um, and then what, what does that look like? How do you even track this? Some kind of blood test? Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So, so the best way truly to diagnose through with mast cell activation syndrome is. Is [00:26:00] honestly working with somebody who understands the symptoms because there’s very specific histamine symptoms that occur in all the different body systems.

So when I’m working with somebody or another mast cell specialist is, they should have a symptom questionnaire that will be the different inflammatory symptoms that are present in every body system. And depending on how it’s rated, we can tell, okay, this person is dealing with mast cell activation syndrome most likely.

Mm-hmm. Until we start to understand what their inciting events were, triggers, things like that. So in terms of that holistic perspective, it’s if there’s symptoms in two or more inflammatory symptoms in two or more body systems. And this is why the, because mast cell activation syndrome didn’t become an official diagnosis until 2016.

So you can imagine the testing hasn’t really been around for that long. We don’t have good testing measures yet. Mm-hmm. So conventionally testing looks like blood test and so. And there’s also a urine test as well that can be taken. [00:27:00] But here’s the thing. What it’s doing is it’s, these different tests are measuring the mediators that get released from, uh, mast cells.

So mast cells, they’re a type of cell, right? White blood cell. But they can release up to a th a 1200 different meat, what we call mediators, which are compounds that get released to basically protect us. Right? Um, one of the most well-known ones is histamine. That’s what everyone thinks of when they think of mass.

Well, there’s actually a like, yeah. 1200 other ones that people get released. Could you list all of those for us please? Yes. How much time do we have? Oh my gosh. I could list like five on the top of my head right now, but I’ll tell you that histamine, tryptase, leukotrienes, prostaglandins and heparin are like the most common ones that we typically see arise on lab work, and that’s what it’ll typically get tested for.

And, but here’s the thing, when we’re testing through labs and through blood. These mediators only stay in the blood for about like two to three minutes after there’s been an activation, and then they get released from [00:28:00] the blood. Okay. Back into the circulation and then ultimately outta the bloodstream.

So, so you have to almost provoke somebody to have a reaction, which is really hard to do, especially if someone has test them right before you test them. Exactly. To get the proper labs to see if we can get a diagnosis. Not only that, that’s part of it. Mm-hmm. The next piece to it is that the lab being used, it can’t just be done at some conventional, like some typical like lab place because the lab has, so the, when we draw the blood, it has to be chilled from the time it’s been drawn to, the time it gets to the lab, until it actually gets measured and tested, which most labs are really not doing that.

Hmm. And so that’s another piece to the puzzle too, is making sure that we’re actually using that proper technique. Right. So, but again, too. Rarely. I would say like, and this is like a pretty common statistic, like across the board, like 10% of people with mass activation syndrome will get the diagnosis through the labs.

So it’s really hard to get it because of the pro [00:29:00] provocation method, the proper testing method, things like that, right? Mm-hmm. So, so that’s why right now the best thing we can do is go off of symptoms, understand really what’s going on, under, understand that person’s journey trajectory to why they’re at, where they’re at today.

And then if that person does start to respond well to mast cell supports, like, which we’ll dive into the treatment piece soon, but so like mast cell stabilizers, that’s when we know, okay, for sure, because these mast cell stabilizers, if somebody doesn’t have mast cell activation syndrome, and we layer in herbal supports for that.

It. It’s not gonna hurt them. Like Right. If anything, it’ll just not feel like a symptom at all. So it’s like, oh, okay, so you’re not having any improvement with this. You don’t most likely have MA activation syndrome because the symptoms of MCAS and like mold toxicity, for example, are quite similar. Mm-hmm.

And so somebody could just honestly be dealing with like heavy toxic load in their body, having a lot of these similar inflammatory symptoms and not responding to the mast cell supports. And that’s where it’s like, okay, well, so. You’re not, you’re dealing with a lot of similar [00:30:00] symptoms, you’re not responding.

So let’s just move straight into starting to help move the body through a little bit of a detox to get what’s in the system out. I wanted to take a second to share about a new product I recently discovered, and you guys know I just love trying new things, but when I get introduced to something I love, I really, really love it and it becomes, usually it becomes some kind of staple in my routine.

And that is exactly what this product has become. It is the new Jacob protein bar. And I am gonna share a couple of things I love about it most. But what I have to start out by saying is I don’t like protein bars. I think they’re disgusting. Most of them taste gross or are just filled with so many unnecessary or toxic ingredients that it’s not even worth eating.

So I haven’t bought protein bars in years. There’s something I just kind of gave up on, but recently one of [00:31:00] the amazing staff at Ascent where my new LO office location is introduced me to the Jacob Bars and their title is The World’s Cleanest Protein Bar. They have 20 grams of grass fed protein, no seed oils, nothing artificial.

Let me just read you the ingredient list for their chocolate version. It’s a grass fed protein blend, organic tapioca fiber, organic honey, grass fed beef, tallow, organic dates, organic almond butter, organic unsweetened chocolate, organic cacao powder, organic chocolate extract, sea salt. That’s it. And I absolutely love the taste.

They have three different flavors, chocolate, vanilla, that has some chocolate chips in it, and then a berry bar, and I actually love all three of them. And these have quickly become a staple at some point in my day, because usually one of my meals in the day is a meal that I need to [00:32:00] just have a quick protein bar, maybe have a protein shake.

So these, I now have a box of these in my office at all times for those days when I need, I didn’t get to have breakfast so I can just have a really, really clean, nutritious protein bar. Or same thing, I didn’t get to pack lunch, so I’m gonna have this protein bar. Uh, it has absolutely blown me away with how clean it is, but also how good they taste.

So check the link in the show notes to learn more about Jacob and try their bars. That was perfect. Thank you. It sounds like conventional approaches do a blood test, probably not very in depth. Symptomology intake, do a blood test. Only 10% of those. Mm are coming back with an actual result. Mm-hmm. So potentially 90% of people who might actually have mast cell, they’re gonna get a negative test result to that?

Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yep. Yeah. Okay. That’s big. So then if they do, I don’t know if we should call them the lucky [00:33:00] 10% or, or not, but those, those who do get a positive result back through conventional testing, what does that conventional approach look like? Oh, okay. You’ve got mast cell, here’s what we’re gonna do about it.

Yes. And this is probably the biggest piece in all of this, is how is this person getting treated for their mast cell activation syndrome? So in the conventional approach, they’re pretty much just being put on antihistamines. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with antihistamines, but it is like. A very small perce, like a percentage of how it’s really going to help that person.

Mm-hmm. So antihistamines that they’re gonna be placed on are more of like the second generation antihistamines. So we’ll see like, uh, like H one blockers, like Allegra and Zyrtec, and ones like that, that they’ll get placed on, that they have to take daily. They can get put on pharmac, like more hefty like pharmaceutical versions that usually need to be compounded like chroma and sodium or kein, which those ones actually, they are antihistamines, but they actually do provide some mast cell stabilization properties.

[00:34:00] The difference between stabilizing mast cells and blocking histamine is that. Exactly as it sounds. If we’re only doing antihistamines for that individual, all we’re doing is blocking the receptor site for how the mast cells are respond, like the signaling effect between the cell and the rest of the body.

Mm-hmm. So we’re literally just blocking like how much histamines actually getting produced, but we’re not blocking all of it and we’re not actually addressing the histamine that is still in the system that needs to get broken down and taken out of the cell. And that is what the stabilizers do. So you can kind of see how like.

The conventional approach. We’re not addressing diet changes. We’re not addressing nervous system regulation. We’re not addressing, you know, um, our environments. We’re not stabilizing the cells at the core. We’re just really blocking the histamine production versus actually stabilizing mast cells. We’re using a lot like, so I mentioned there are pharmaceutical supports that are great, like kain and chroma and [00:35:00] sodium chroma and sodium does get used more for like specific gut symptoms.

I have seen that be very helpful for individuals that primarily have symptoms in the gut as a result of mast cell activation syndrome. Fin’s a really, another great one, another really well-rounded one. But I have to say in my practice, I have rarely had to recommend that we need to use that because there’s so much that can be done through lifestyle supports as well as implementing actual mast cell stabilizers, which some of my personal favorite ones now, everyone’s gonna be a little bit different because there’s like 30 plus that I love to choose from.

It’s just dependent on the person’s symptoms. Mm-hmm. And also depending on, you know, their sensitivities as well, so. Perine, like perilla seed extract is great. Um, diamine, oxidates, DAO, very helpful. Quercetin, resveratrol, lutein, those are, um, Chinese Skullcap, like those are some of my favorite ones that I love to use.

But again, depending on that person’s symptoms, like in their, [00:36:00] um, sensitivities, and I’ll go ahead and mention this, is that some, some 20% of people with MAs cell activation syndrome will not only have a sensitivity to things that are high in histamine, like certain foods and things like that, but they’ll also have a sensitivity to salicylates.

And that is like an herbal compound that’s found in a lot of different plants. Mm-hmm. And that’s why a lot of herbs will actually have a high salicylate content. So we have to be really careful with people with mast cell activation because we could, if we accidentally gave them a supplement that was high in salicylates, they could have really horrible symptoms.

And those are like, quercetin and resveratrol are two that are really high in silicates, so. Mm-hmm. You know, that’s why my, when I am suspecting MAs activation syndrome, and I know a lot of other practitioners that do this as well, is being really cautious and understanding what are your triggers? Because we have to make sure we gear the right, even mast stabilizing supplements to that individual so that it’s not triggering them, it’s actually stabilizing them.

So that’s a really big key in all of it, is making sure that we’re choosing the right ones for [00:37:00] that person. Yeah. Okay. 2, 2, 1 follow up and then one kind of moving us forward. Yeah. So what I’ll bring it back to though with kind of that conventional approach is the imagery that was coming to me is, you know, a little army that’s like going to attack.

When we’re just addressing the histamines, it’s like they’ve put up a wall so that army can’t get to where it’s trying to go, but the army is still running and attacking. Yeah. They’re still gearing up, they’re still pounding on the wall to try to get through. And how many, how much of our resources does it take to, you know, dress an army, equip an army, launch them out onto attack?

It takes up so many resources, even if they can’t get to where they’re trying to go. Mm-hmm. So it is, it’s treating a symptom. It’s not asking the question, why are your mast cells so overstimulated? Mm-hmm. To that end, to me, from what you’ve said so far, I’m kind of hearing two different sort of maybe simultaneous approaches you might be taking.

One of which is of course, asking that deeper question and maybe doing testing about [00:38:00] what is going on deeper in the body that’s taking up capacity. Mm-hmm. That might need to be addressed. What, what is the, you know, toxic or. Bad stuff that needs to be cleared out. But then simultaneously, what can we bring in to, in the meantime as we’re doing that, help settle some of those responses, mitigate some of those symptoms.

Exactly, yes. And so. That’s the biggest question in all of it is why is this happening? Because mast cell activation syndrome, when people get diagnosed conventionally, it’s just, that’s your diagnosis. There it is. Antihistamines or whatever else, maybe the doctor recommends and that’s it. But in my forever, in my, yeah, literally forever and it’s like, but in my experience it’s, okay, well what can we do to stabilize you?

But ultimately, like what is really triggering you constantly because it’s a symptom mass activation syndrome is a symptom, not a diagnosis in my personal opinion. So it’s like what’s really at the deep, deeper end of this that’s triggering and it’s [00:39:00] understanding, yeah, through testing or whatever it is, or through just a really good history.

Like what were your exposures, what was your, what are your stress levels? Like what, what stressors have you gone through in your life? Like, you know, travel, things like that. Like I just understanding like what’s going on and then providing that approach in terms of like, okay, let’s do some testing and we can figure out like what’s going on.

But I’ll tell you really quickly too, before we dive into the testing, is. When I’m dealing with someone with a very hypersensitive mast cell reaction, I, I actually don’t even dive into testing right away because the, the testing will do good for us later, but I find that to be almost this added stressor of let’s try to take a test, let’s try to do this.

We need to stabilize first anyways. Like, I just know this person needs that stabilization support. And so I’ll spend my first like two sessions meeting with them just Okay. Like gently layering in these supports because especially with someone in that hypersensitive reaction phase of mast cell, right?

Like at that one deeper end of the spectrum, it’s gonna take a while to layer in their supports because [00:40:00] like, kind of like your analogy that you mentioned, I actually have a similar one with mast cell that I explained to all my clients. It’s like. I tell them, imagine that your mast cells are like the guards at a castle gate, right?

And they’re there to protect you. That’s their whole goal. They’re protecting the castle, the queen, whatever it is you wanna think about. And if we just layer in a supplement, like even though it’s a great mast cell stabilizer, they’ll probably respond well to it. If we just give them even a full capsule of it, they’re most likely gonna respond because those mast cells are so agitated, we cannot go in even with a full dose.

I always tell people, layer in with like a fairy dust, sprinkle in some water, drink it, and then that’s your starting point. And then you, if you feel like you’re doing well, you can go a little quicker to get up to your full dosage. If you feel like you are like, like it’s taking you a little while, then it, it might take somebody a month to get up to a full capsule.

And I’m not exaggerating. Like it takes time. And that’s why the journey can take. Four to five years for somebody to fully resolve like their mast cell activation syndrome. Because first we gotta get the whole stabilization support [00:41:00] onboarded. Mm-hmm. Before we could even think about detoxing. ’cause detoxing is, you know, it can be a mast cell trigger too.

So that’s why we go low and slow is the name of the game. We can’t go too quick. ’cause that can cause those flare we referred to earlier and then cause things to kind of go a little bit slower actually in the long run. So definitely in terms of supporting someone with mast cell, it’s layering in those supports, right?

To stabilize. Right. It’s layering the mast cell stabilizers, working on limbic system dysfunction, working on nervous system regulation. What’s, what are they avoiding in their diet? Okay. If you’re avoiding high histamine foods, then it, because they need to, what can we replace with that’s healing? What?

’cause we need to layer in like different, like healing foods, you know, to support our liver and our kidneys and our whole body’s ability to just like function optimally. Mm-hmm. So it’s addressing all of those things and ultimately I’m looking to the environment immediately, like, what are you still potentially getting exposed to?

Is it mold or was it a previous mold exposure, but now [00:42:00] you’re, you know, exposed to something else in the home. Like potentially maybe you live near a golf course and there’s a high pesticide amount that you’re getting exposed to, or you’re still using conventional cleaning products. Like I, that’s so important to make sure we’re addressing like, exposures to toxins too, just to lower that, what’s in that bucket?

Mm-hmm. Like we need to lower their toxic load bucket so that in and of itself. Is a big stabilization protocol. Not just the supplements, but really addressing the environment, the nervous system and the, and the food. It’s really big. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I just, I think it’s really important what you’re saying that, especially if it’s in some of those extremer cases, getting to that place where you can even look at the deeper root cause sometimes isn’t accessible right.

In the beginning. Mm-hmm. Because it will be too overstimulating and ultimately counterproductive. Exactly. In the long run, I’m kind of, I, I’ll, like, I’m thinking of it in my terms of my practice where if I’m working with someone I. And the unconscious and the patterns. I might see that there is like a really big past trauma that’s contributing [00:43:00] to something they’re experiencing.

But I might also see that if we try to go straight there, it’s gonna be totally retraumatizing. So we need to start at a different place to reestablish the safety, reestablish the trust, you know, kind of regulate the nervous system. Yeah, it’s very similar principles actually. Yes. You know, and that’s, so I wanna kind of go off that as well, is that I, if I discover that somebody is dealing with, has, it’s, a lot of it is due to some form of trauma.

You know, this is not my area of expertise. And so there can be, you know, two to three to four different people on someone’s care team when dealing with mast cell activation syndrome, right? Because that’s not my area. They need to, you know, work on that piece. But I always tell them, like, make sure that we’re not revisiting the trauma because again, too, right.

We don’t want to overload the system more. Right. We gotta find ways to be able to work into that regulation piece to be able to start to calm that ma the mast cell response or whatever response it is. Right. You know, from that expo, [00:44:00] from whatever that was that they had experienced. But yeah, it, it’s it very similar, similar pattern is we don’t wanna set back, we wanna move forward.

So how do we do that for that person? Mm-hmm. So it sounds like where it starts for you is once you’ve done your intake and you’ve got a pretty good idea, here’s what’s going on. Then it starts with, for this person, based on their symptomology, what is going to be the best supports? Mm-hmm. What are gonna be the best stabilizers for them to start with?

Yes. Could we go into that maybe a little bit more in terms of maybe like. If their symptoms are showing up a lot in the gut here might, here might be some versus if they’re showing up, I don’t know, neurologically or on the skin what some of those might look like. Yeah, maybe we start there. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, so, so I will say, actually the first thing that I have every single person do, like regardless of where the heck their symptoms are located, is a nervous system support. So like whatever they can layer in, I have like specific recommendations that I’ve found to be very helpful for those that are struggling with mast [00:45:00] cell activation syndrome, that are supporting the vagus nerve as how it signals to the body if they’ve dealt with like structural abnormalities or potentially like concussions.

Like how can we support the vagus nerve as it’s structurally exiting the skull through the neck, right? Because sometimes the ization there. Is not allowing it to then be able to signal to the rest of the body is there a limbic system piece that needs to be added in? So, so I will say that’s like the foundation is like, that’s part of what I’m layering in.

And then in terms of like gut symptoms, so if somebody is dealing with like more gut symptoms, which I’ll say I actually see quite a lot of, a lot of those showing up in my practice is I’m really focusing, again, nervous system vagus nerve because the vagus nerve as we know controls like a lot of different organs of digestion.

So we gotta focus on that. I’m focusing on supporting their body’s ability to be able to actually, I. Um, digest foods properly. So have they held, had like a bad mold exposure, which most people do. Gallbladder support, you know, [00:46:00] enzyme support. We know enzymes are decreased in those that are dealing with mold issues, right?

Mm-hmm. Are they struggling with gut motility? That’s important. We gotta help support mo um, get things moving because if someone’s a little more constipated, they’re getting more exposed to toxins every day. ’cause that’s 85% of how we release toxins is through our stool working on, like I mentioned, very much so at the beginning of the conversation, weak barriers.

So if somebody’s been dealing with gut issues for a really long time, I know I need a layer in like something to help support the layer to start to kinda create a little bit more of a, a better structure there, right? So it’s not as leaky. So those are some of the supports, even just outside of actually doing mast cell stabilizing.

Mm-hmm. But then when it comes to stabilization, DAO is a really big one for supporting people with gut issues because. Diamine oxidase is an enzyme that is found in our intestinal lining. As you can imagine, if somebody’s been dealing with leaky gut or gut issues for a long time, that lining starts to kind of deteriorate a little bit.

The little finger-like projections that surround the entire intestine, they [00:47:00] hold enzymes. DAO is one of them. It’s job is to break down histamine. So you can imagine if we’re having a hyperstimulated mast cell reaction with a bunch of histamine getting released and we don’t have the enzyme to break it down, we’re just being flooded with histamine.

Mm-hmm. And primarily those show up in the gut. Um, if somebody’s been dealing with the gut issues for a long time. So diamine oxidase is an actual enzyme support that we can take that helps to you take it about 15 ish minutes before meals. And that provides the body with the enzyme to help me able to degrade histamine as they’re eating.

’cause just even the active digestion actually produces histamine on its own too. So, right. So we’re doing that. And then in terms of other gut supports, I look to, um, one of my other favorite supports in terms of mast cell stabilizing. For gut related is I love aloe. Aloe has been shown in a study back, uh, gosh, it was like 2022 or 2023.

This study came out that compared aloe vera to seven different pharmaceutical grade, including chroma and sodium [00:48:00] antoin, um, pharmaceutical grade, uh, MAs, cell stabilizers, and it performed just as well and in some cases outperformed those pharmaceutical supports. And we know aloe vera is incredible for supporting the gut lining.

So it’s amazing. It’s a great mast cell stabilizer. Um, it actually helps to bind to a couple of different mold toxins too, but it’s so gentle. So that’s why it blinds the aflatoxin and gliotoxin. So we know that’s wonderful too. We can kind of maybe get a gentle like detox support from it. So those are kind of my ones for that.

And then looking to the diet, I don’t know if I mentioned that earlier, but again. Like identifying what’s triggering you. Are you responsive to high histamine foods, but not all high histamine foods? Let’s figure that out. So we are not cutting too much out. Are you responding to high, you know, salicylate foods or high oxalate foods?

We just look and we wanna make sure that we’re reducing their exposure. Mm-hmm. And then layering in healing foods too. So that’s an important piece. I love the colors of the rainbow, so great for healing, the healing the gut. But yeah, so that’s a [00:49:00] really big one when it comes to the gut piece. And then simultaneously looking into like other symptoms as well, like neurological symptoms.

You know, again, I’m taking a very same approach looking at the nervous system, like to environment, all that stuff. But in terms of stabilizers and with, uh, mast cell activation syndrome, I love different supports like occhio, which is magnolia bark, um mm-hmm. I love PEAI can honestly, you’ll, uh, it’s just, it stands for PEA.

I can never pronounce the full name of this. It’s like the longest name ever. I have no idea. But, so it’s a great neurological support. Um, that’s one of my other favorites. And then Lutein, I love for that as well. Um, if somebody’s having a lot of reactions because I know that they’re really under a toxic load.

Like their liver is just struggling to keep up, but we gotta stabilize at the same time. Actually, silly Marin, which is an extract from Milk Thistle, is a fabulous mast cell stabilizer too. So giving them like, and Lutein is another good one for that too. So layering in some supports that I know can simultaneously help stabilize, but [00:50:00] also provide that like.

Um, like effect in helping them, like what their specific like symptoms are. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. I think that’s such a great place to start. And then to that end, yeah, once, once they’re starting to get stabilized, then you start asking these deeper questions. What, what might be going on? You probably already have an idea because your intake form is very extensive.

Thank you. To compliment, so I’m sure discussion with them, you’re already like, I already have an idea of where we need to go with this, but let’s spend some time mm-hmm. Stabilizing first. Exactly. And yes. And that’s really why my intake form is long, because I really wanna see what can I gather from this before we even dive into it.

’cause I like if I’m picking something out, you know, a lot of times, and I’m sure you see this all the time in your practice too, is people will forget like things that have happened to them or exposures they’ve had because. Maybe they’ve had a lot going on in their life or you know, they didn’t realize or they didn’t realize, you know, how big of a deal maybe that was at the [00:51:00] time.

And so I kind of wanna get an idea like, what is this person dealing with? Like, what potential exposures have they had? Because then after that I, let’s talk about mold ex for example. Like if there’s like a mold issue, I’m typically running a urine mycotoxin test. Two great labs for a vibrant wellness as well as real-time labs, if I’m suspecting that they’ve had more than just mold.

Like if there’s like a significant heavy metal exposure, if there’s um, high glyphosate exposure, things like that. There’s panels for that too. Like Vibrant Wellness actually runs a total toxin panel, which will look at a lot of different environmental chemicals as well, like even BPA and phthalates and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm. So, you know, it’s kind of understanding like what, where is like, what. Does this person’s body saying to me, like, what potentially were they exposed to that? Luckily there’s testing for pretty much almost everything. Mm-hmm. So we can kind of get an idea of what’s going on. They’re having a lot of like a lot of gut symptoms.

I do like to run like a gut zoomer through vibrant Wellness, which is [00:52:00] looking at. Inflammation in the gut. It’s looking at short chain fatty acid production. It’s looking at, you know, how’s your gallbladder and your pancreas functioning. Um, and it’s looking, it’s looking at a lot of different things and so we can kind of get an idea of what we need to do, do some testing to rule out and rule in things, and then kind of go from there in terms of what they’ll need supporting later to ultimately, you know, get rid of their MAs, their hyperactive mast cell response, and be able to eat the things and do the thing like that they love and do the things they love.

Again, something I use myself often and recommend to clients often too, is the Apollo Neuro wearable device. This is a wearable device that helps regulate the nervous system, has been proven to increase. HRV helps with sleep focus, and a couple of things I really love is. It’s super inconspicuous, so it’s something you can have on all day at work, at home, wherever you’re going, and no one’s really gonna notice it.

And I [00:53:00] love that because a lot of the nervous system regulating devices out there, or supportive devices out there aren’t that practical. You really have to do them at home or it’s not something you’d really want to be doing or using in public. But the Apollo wearable is so inconspicuous and easy and it uses vibration haptics that send safety and regulating signals to the nervous system to allow for more focus, better sleep.

Calmer state. They have won so many awards for this product and I feel like there’s a million more things I could say about it. So I’ll encourage you guys to check the show notes below for a link to learn more about the product. I also have a discount code below. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love how in depth this is.

This is exactly the kind of conversation I love to have. I might, yeah, I feel like we did answer this a little bit on the way, but I think it’s worth asking again in case there’s other pieces that didn’t get brought up [00:54:00] of common, either missed missteps or misconceptions or things people or practitioners might be doing that are counterproductive when it comes to mast cell.

I know the biggest one we’ve talked about so far is layering in too much too quick, or trying to go into detox too quick. But is there anything else? That you might see. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, so, um, we did touch on one of them, which was that antihistamines are enough. And I wanna reiterate that again, that it’s not, it’s, it can be helpful for a lot of, like, I’ve used antihistamines in my practice with people, like if people that are extremely sensitive, but we have to layer in the stabilizer effect as well.

’cause we’re only doing so much, you know, I guess so little when we’re, when we’re using the antihistamines, right? And so that can help create better symptoms because we’re not releasing as much, but we gotta stabilize. Um, I will say this is really one of the biggest misconceptions in the mast cell spaces.

’cause I get asked this all the time on my social media, like, can I ever heal from this? Mm. [00:55:00] And the answer is absolutely because the problem is in the conventional workup model, it’s considered just a diagnosis, not a symptom. And so antihistamines are the answer and that’s it. And avoid your triggers. And that’s.

That’s their life. And it’s, it should not be their life. They, they mm-hmm. If you, if you can get to the root cause of why, and like just be patient in the stabilizing process and getting the detox in the detox process and all that’s involved, right. You can absolutely heal. Like, absolutely. And I’ll even use myself as an example.

I had, you know, not at like the, the farthest end of the spectrum, but I was very reactive to so many histamine foods. I had hives, I had all kinds of nervous system dysregulation symptoms, like constantly. I couldn’t go out in the sun for longer than like 20 minutes without my skin burning. I couldn’t be in a sauna for longer than five minutes without my skin burning.

I, at one point I was like, oh my gosh, I am, I’m never gonna be able to do these things again. And once I got to the root cause, which for me was, it was a nervous system dysregulation tied with, um. Very, [00:56:00] very severe mold toxicity. I, I can do all those things again. I can eat the highest histamine foods on the planet.

I can drink red wine if I want to. Um, you know, I can, you know, go out in the sun and lay out there for hours on end and not have a reaction. And so, you know, it’s, and that’s just myself as an example, but that’s the case for so many people I work with. And, and other wonderful practitioners are doing a great job as well at getting people to that point.

And so that’s, I just wanna mention that yes, you absolutely can heal. ’cause that’s, uh, especially when you’re so deep down in those symptoms. It’s hard to imagine a life sometimes where you are able to heal, but you can if you get to that point. Um, and then I wanna say the other one too, as a misconception is that histamine’s like the only trigger.

So, ’cause we hear mast cell, we hear histamine. That’s like what we always hear on like social media and stuff. But there’s so much more to just high histamine like foods that can be like a trigger. And that’s usually what people are thinking is their only thing they need to avoid. Mm-hmm. But you know, there’s so many more things that can be triggering too.

And that’s where almost keeping a [00:57:00] symptom journal and a changes journal. I like people to do that and kind of like, just for a little while and like, just kind of started to gather like, yeah, I, when I eat this food I reacted, or when I used this lotion I reacted, or when I was stressed, I reacted. You know, I, so it’s understanding what your triggers are that are stimulating that hyperactive mast cell response.

Um, so, and the fourth one I’ll mention too, is. A lot of what you’ll see kind of conventionally is saying that you really don’t have mast cell activation syndrome unless you’re having like anaphylactic type reactions, which is absolutely not the case. I mean, I see a lot of people that do have that, but mm-hmm.

So much more than that too, and so that’s where I think it can get confusing for individuals dealing with MCAS, not having those severe quote unquote reactions. But they’re still having horrible inflammatory reactions in other areas of their body too, so, totally. Yeah, totally. That are super cumbersome.

Mm-hmm. Moving through your day, having all these symptoms. Yeah. Two things I’ll say. One, yes, kind of broadening this symptom [00:58:00] tracking too, because I do think it’s very easy to get super narrowed in, especially with food even, you know, even in this, in our holistic world, food can be such a big thing that we, I think sometimes hyper over fixate on, and I think it’s more about tracking symptoms and then zooming out and not just going, what did I, what did I eat recently?

But just what happened recently in my day. Yes. Was there a stressor? Was there an emotional stressor? Did I use a certain product? Did I eat a cer certain food? Did I drink a certain thing? Did I go outside? It’s a bigger perspective on tracking what’s happening in, in your day beyond just food, which I think is an important thing Yes.

To point out. Yeah, definitely. And it’s so easy, like what you were saying, to get so hyper fixated too, like on one thing. ’cause you know, food is an easy one to kinda like hyper fixate on and be like, okay, like is, is this mainly what I’m like? ’cause we eat, you know, three to four meals a day. Like, you know, it’s a big exposure to certain things that can be triggering.

It can be something so easy to [00:59:00] hyper fixate on. But absolutely, I’m seeing, I’m looking to environment chemicals. Nervous system supports, right? Like even supplements, like so. Mm-hmm. This is another piece too, is that I see a lot of individuals like that come to me. They’re on a million supplements, and I’m like, oh goodness.

So, you know, we tend to, for like, you know, we think of supplements as like holistic and great, but they, you know, polypharmacy is still a thing when it comes to supplements as well, like not just medications and they can interact and they can also be creating kind of a bit of a burden on the body. So that’s a big one too, but looking to supplement fillers as well.

And so I did a post on that a little while back, but we know of certain, like, fillers that are in supplements that can be triggering as well. And so it’s just about identifying, like it could just be a simple thing as that. Like maybe it’s in some, something in the supplement you’re taking mm-hmm. That is triggering too.

Or maybe just not the right mast cell support for you, depending on like, what’s going on in your body. But yeah, it’s, it’s so much more than just food and it’s a matter of just taking it a, taking [01:00:00] that like big step back and just being like, okay, like what else? Is there, that can be still triggering me right now.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. As an aside, I, what are some high histamine foods? We’ve said that a couple times and I’m just not even familiar with what those are. Oh, yes. Okay. So let me go in my, let me pull this list up in my brain. So some of the more con, so, so there’s foods that can be like, naturally high histamine or ones that can cause histamine to be liberated from the body.

But I’m just gonna kind of go through like the general list. So like spinach, um, histamine are two, sorry, sorry. Spin histamine, spinach, strawberries, um, citrus fruits, sauerkrauts, kimchi, like anything fermented is a really big one. Dark chocolates. Um, and certain there’s, there’s a list of like different veggies and fruits that can also be like higher histamine as well.

But I’d say those are kind of. The biggest ones, um, certain types of like nuts, like cashews, um, [01:01:00] seeds, like, um, sesame seeds or like tahini can be really, um, histamine liberating. And then one of the biggest things too is like for a lot of people that are really sensitive, especially in the food group to high histamine foods, um, if you leave your foods overnight, even in the fridge, they can develop a little bit of mold typically.

And then that is usually a huge histamine trigger for people. So a lot of people that are really sensitive have to actually freeze all of their leftovers because, like left, even left overnight in the fridge can be like a huge trigger as well. And then. The other thing too is when it comes to like animal products, um, certain types of dairy, depending on like conventional, like versus like organic can be really, um, histamine liberating and then like meats and fish.

So if those have not been like, they’re naturally low histamine, but if you didn’t get them like from a good source where they potentially are coming to contact with a lot of different stuff, who knows what is, you know, [01:02:00] those animals accumulated along their lifespan. That can be really triggering for people.

So there’s um, a couple like, so for my clients that do eat like a good amount of protein and meat products, I’ll recommend sourcing it from, um, okay, let me see if I remember the name. Um, there’s the, uh, wild Oak and then, um, there’s one, a North Star Bison is another one that I’ll recommend because those I really trust to be as low histamine as possible.

And then also just getting it locally, like as local as you can get. You know, the farming, you know, the farmers, that’s important as well. And then in terms of fish, you have to make sure that it’s wild caught salmon or wild caught fish and that it’s been flash frozen after because if it’s just been sitting around for a while, that can develop a little bit of gunk in it that can trigger histamine releases.

And the company, I believe is called Wild Alaskan something. I can’t remember the name right now. I’ll. I can provide you the link so it can be in the show notes, but Okay. Yeah. There’s certain companies that I’ll recommend, like for my most sensitive [01:03:00] clients to make sure they’re sourcing their products from.

Yeah. Just to, yeah. And that might not be everyone. ’cause I can even hear some of the audience listening going, oh my gosh, that is so intense. That’s so extreme. That’s, that’s so labor intensive. But also that reminder, that’s not everyone, those are exactly the individuals who are on that far, far end of the spectrum of how this is showing up for them.

Yeah. I think a, a place to close maybe is for anyone who’s listening who either A, knows they’re experiencing this, but. Isn’t working, working with someone yet, or someone who, having listened to this conversation, might be suspecting they might have mast cell. Where is a good place to start that they could start today or this week?

Even beyond booking a consult with you. Yeah. In the meantime, as they’re waiting for that consult with you, what can they start to do? Definitely. I love this question too because this like there’s so much you can kind of do on your own without needing to see a practitioner to start to like just stabilize.

So I would [01:04:00] say, I always go back to this, but nervous system regulation. So finding something in your daily routine that you can do to start to regulate your nervous system. Depending on like how severe your reactions might meet, might be, I recommend anywhere between like 30 to 60 minutes a day. It can be broken up, but trying to fi find some form of regulation.

If you find that you’re really reactive to. A lot of things I would recommend starting with limbic system regulation. And so, um, looking through like limbic system retraining programs, like my two favorite are the Gupta program and Primal Trust. They’re amazing. So I would recommend also starting that, ’cause that’s self-paced.

You can do that on your own. So nervous system work, incredible. Um, I would recommend keeping a tracker of what you are responding to. If a lot of it is food, find foods that you can replace it with. Don’t just try to cut a lot of food groups out, like if you’re, ’cause not everyone’s gonna respond to just all high histamine foods.

It could be certain really high histamine foods, maybe some on the lower [01:05:00] spectrum. You can pretty much just Google like a high histamine list and just kind of get an idea for like what you’re responding to. So that’s a really big one. Um, use apps like Clear YA or EWG to crosscheck. The products that you’re using in your house.

Mm-hmm. You know, you don’t need to work with somebody. You can follow a bunch of different accounts on Instagram too that are great at finding really great non-toxic products, but you know, try to reduce your toxic load in the environment. If you are suspecting mold is a current issue, I would recommend starting to look out to like local mold inspectors or working with making sure that they’re an IEP.

So an indoor environmental professional to be able to help you assess your home and then figure out what you need to do in that respect as well. Mm-hmm. Um, and then in terms of stabilizers, this one I won’t be able to give as much like, you know, support on there because I can’t, you know, depending on somebody’s symptoms.

But you know, there’s a bunch of different wonderful mast cell stabilizers and I always just tell people if you’re trying to go on your own with starting, then make sure you just start low and slow with everything. So like we [01:06:00] mentioned way earlier, but just starting with sprinkles and kind of working your way up and then seeing how your body responds.

So that’s another big one as well. Um, and then, you know, I actually. Have a program coming out in August where it is basically bringing you through, it’s like a live program where we meet for six weeks, twice a week. And it’s basically being bringing you through these different stabilization points in detail so that way you can implement them on your own.

’cause there is a lot that I really believe a lot of people can do on their own without needing to meet with a practitioner and spend a lot of money. Mm-hmm. To like try to just get themselves to a better stabilized place. Obviously once we’re getting to like the mold piece and the detox piece, you will wanna work with somebody on that, but there’s a lot you can do on your own just to get your body in a better, more stabilized position before you start to move forward with trying to detox.

Yeah, I think that is amazing. Is there anything else you feel that is really, really pertinent that we didn’t cover? Um, let me see. So, um, no, I think one of the things I did [01:07:00] wanna mention was those dealing with mast cell activation syndrome, right? Like I had mentioned before. You know, like you’re very sensitive, right?

And so you wanna like try to like move into trying to supplement or, you know, detox and like try to get whatever is in your system out of out because you’re, you’re struggling so much and it’s completely understandable. But I wanna make sure I mention that if you are suspecting you have mast cell activation syndrome and you know that mold is part of it, or some chemical exposure, whatever it is, do not try to just jump into a detox right away.

You do need to make sure that you are stabilized because detoxing can really be triggering. So that’s the one thing I really wanted to harp on is just ’cause I’ll work with people and they’re like, are we ready yet to detox? Are we ready? And I’m like, not yet because like, we wanna get there before you’re ready.

And so that’s another piece to it too. And then foundational pieces. I know we talked a lot about different stuff, but another trigger can be dehydration. So making sure that you’re staying adequately hydrated at least half your body weight and ounces of water a day. Um. I think of clean filtered water [01:08:00] too.

Like either using distillation or reverse osmosis with re mineral remineralization. Um, making sure, again, healing diet if you can. If you feel well enough to move, try to go on some walks. Try to get out nature as much as you can. I truly believe that so much of our dis-ease is actually a result of our disconnect with nature and like from like, who we are is like at our core, and so mm-hmm.

Going out to the beach, going out. If you have a park near you or like a rock or something, like, I don’t know, anywhere, get on a trail, just do that, you know, as often as you can, you know, even 20 minutes a day or a 20 minutes. A week and it all adds up and helps your nervous system and helps your body so much.

And one thing I didn’t mention is a part, the reason I’m so big with the nervous system regulation is because mast cells lie at every nerve ending. Mm-hmm. And so that’s why the nervous system and our mast cells are so intertwined. If we’re stressed, then our mast cells become reactive. If our mast cells are reactive, our nervous [01:09:00] system’s dysregulated.

So we have to break the cycle somewhere. And if that person can’t tolerate supplements, nervous system and nature is a fabulous place to start. I have seen so many people get better just from like truly getting out in nature, nervous system regulating and just reducing toxic load in their environment.

Those things that they don’t have to physically add into their body. Mm-hmm. But they can change in their environment. So those are probably some of the biggest pieces. And then, you know, from there, moving forward into, just keep asking why, like that’s the biggest thing because. It isn’t, this isn’t your life that you have to deal with forever.

It’s just a symptom that your body’s like just telling you something’s wrong. Something at its core is wrong. And so understanding what toxic load is in your body and mm-hmm. Addressing it completely com uh, completely I, and to that end, making sure we’re bringing in those conscious and unconscious narratives that this does not need to be my story forever.

Sometimes that’s the starting point, is just bringing in a new narrative. Yes. Opening. I love that. Opening up a pathway to something new. So definitely, definitely. Can you please, I will make sure they’re in [01:10:00] the show notes, but can you please tell people, you know, your website, your social media handles and how they might be able to work with you if they were interested?

Sure, yes. So, um, my website is stephanie peacock.com and I’ve got information there. I’ve got like my two upcoming courses that are, um, that are located there. I actually have a, a, well, I’m calling a live masterclass in three weeks. That’s just touching on my top five MAs cell stabilizers. It’s gonna be a two hour class where I’m teaching it, and then I’ll have a q and a at the end.

So it’s going to be on Thursday, May 15th, so it’s about three weeks away. So the signups on my website, you can sign up there for that. Um, and it’s gonna be all research backed, all about, like how to implement them, everything. So that’s my, one of my favorite things I have coming up. The second one is the group coaching program in August.

I already mentioned that’s a six week live course, but that’s also all the information’s on my website. My social media handles are just my name. So on TikTok and Instagram, I’m very active on both accounts. It’s Dr. Steph Peacock, Dr for doctor. And [01:11:00] then, um, my newsletter information’s on there as well. And then, yeah, and if people wanna work with me, they can, um, shoot an email through the webs through my website, um, to me.

Or they can also sign up for a consult on there as well for one-on-one. ’cause you do one for one-on-one. Thank you. Yes, yes. Yeah, I actually just do one-on-one. This group coaching program is totally new. I’m just doing it to help people get to a better stabilized place before they need to start to really invest in working with somebody.

But yeah, it, but if they wanna work one-on-one with me right now, that’s, uh, that’s where they can find me. I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was phenomenal. Such a deep dive I think. Yeah, I think so too. Thank you for the questions and for letting me talk so much about this, because I’m excited to just get this information out there to more people listening that might be confused with their symptoms and when what’s been going on.

So yeah. Thank you, Leigh Ann. This was so, so much [01:12:00] fun.