THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 126

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:01.56)
Well, Suzanne, welcome to the Accrescent Podcast.

Suzanne Roberts (00:04.913)
Thank you, Leigh Ann. I’m so happy to be here with you. Thanks for having me.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:10.098)
We were just chatting a little bit off air. You know, I always listen to other podcast episodes that my guests have done to just get a sense of so many different things, the topics they like to cover, how they show up in an interview, and it just helps me prepare for my time with them. But listening to some of your past interviews, I was like, there is so much crossover in our personal stories, which…

Suzanne Roberts (00:33.639)
Mm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:35.212)
I’m excited to get into a little bit more, but I think the question I wanted to start off with is you have this book, it’s deeper than that, coming out in October, I think, just maybe a little over a month, October 15th, if that’s still the right date. And I’m getting my PhD in depth psychology, so now my mind is shifting towards dissertation and they keep leaning in, like you have to refine, that’s too broad, you have to refine it, you have to refine it.

Suzanne Roberts (00:43.109)
Yes. Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (00:52.484)
Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:05.197)
And so now it’s given me this deeper appreciation for authors because if you chose to write a book, there were probably 20 other things you could have written a book on. And so it makes me so curious about of all the things you could have written about, this book grabbed you and this was the thing that you wanted to birth into the world. And why was that? Why was this the one that sort of the final cut?

Suzanne Roberts (01:33.916)
I mean, that’s a great question. I would say that I have had a successful coaching and consulting business as an adult on the side. taught something called polarity therapy, but not like anything, any other polarity schools teach. I really developed the principles of polarity therapy for human and social development. So I would, and my students kept saying to me,

people have to understand what it is that you’re teaching here because you’re the only one doing it. And so for me, it was a way to create a legacy for this work that I’ve developed over so many years that I’m the only unique voice of it. I mean, yes, I’m training other people, but I’m the one that generated it. But to be honest with you, it was really hard to get a format for the book.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (02:30.707)
I believe that, yeah.

Suzanne Roberts (02:32.219)
That’s what was, I wrote for six years and did not have a book. But my mother-in-law, who’s a renowned social, author, had a really bad fall. And I would go to the rehab center and read to her from my book. And she said to me, Suzanne, do you know this book is for me, you and everyone?

And I said, no, I didn’t know that. And that is those are the three sections of my book. And as soon as she said that, I had an order and then I wrote it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (03:06.668)
Wow.

That is so expansive for me though, because I have always wanted to write. I aspire to write. And that is what hangs me up is like, how could I put this? What is that template? What is… and not wanting to just repeat someone else’s template. Because I do think when you’ve got your own thing, your own story, yeah, anyway, that’s really expansive for me though, that almost like you kind of in a weird way putting it out there, even though was just with your mother-in-law, allowed that

Suzanne Roberts (03:21.361)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (03:38.454)
template to come through for you. That’s really expansive.

Suzanne Roberts (03:41.615)
It’s very exciting and honestly, then I wrote it in about 90 days. And I did not use the three inches of material that I had written over the previous six years. I did not. But I think unloading all that material opened me up that once the structure was there, it came through. Like it ended up writing itself. So in a certain way, and

Leigh Ann Lindsey (03:46.412)
my god.

Suzanne Roberts (04:07.993)
I’ve heard that from other people, until I was in the experience of it, I didn’t understand it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (04:13.758)
Yeah, okay, I’m gonna ask one more selfish question here. Sorry, audience, all those years of writing before, were you doing that with the intention of using it for a book? Okay.

Suzanne Roberts (04:17.499)
Yeah.

Suzanne Roberts (04:24.741)
Yes. Yes, that is true. I have this much writing. I’m not joking you. And my second writing coach, I took it to her and she just looked bewildered and said, I think you have to start over because this has no order and no, I don’t know how to put this together for you. And I was so mad to tell you the truth, Leanne. I was so mad, but she was right. And I

Leigh Ann Lindsey (04:52.93)
Yeah.

Suzanne Roberts (04:53.891)
I had to give myself permission to let it go and then let it empty out of me. But I think all the years of all that writing, let me empty myself.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (05:06.35)
completely what it’s making me think of is one of my professors in the PhD program. know, depth psychology is very spiritual in a sense. And, and so she talks about like being in relationship with the text, being in relationship with your dissertation. And so what I hear in that is you were in relationship with this book for six years.

Suzanne Roberts (05:15.558)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (05:30.706)
And ultimately all of that stuff isn’t what became the book, but you have been in relationship with it for years and that’s what allowed you to then, you know, allow it to come to pass so quickly when the time was right.

Suzanne Roberts (05:37.477)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (05:45.987)
Exactly. My oldest son is a composer, a very good composer, and he would say to me, Mom, because he’s written like orchestra pieces, you know, like big, big things. And he’s like, you just it doesn’t matter if you actually write that day. It just matters that you’re engaging and sitting, even if you’re considering. And I think that I had six years of writing and considering.

that kept me, like you said, kept me in relationship until the time was right. And I’m really glad the book did not get written until it got written because I think I evolved and I had to become who I am now for the book to happen.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:23.242)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:27.854)
I just love that. Like I said, so, so expansive because I’m coming into a period of writing in that sense and also just have aspired to write my whole life. So that’s really beautiful to hear. Thank you. Yes. So to that end.

Suzanne Roberts (06:38.702)
I’m happy for you.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:46.042)
the book is in three parts. It starts with your story and how you use the polarity system to support and tend your own trauma, which I’m so excited to get into. And then kind of the you, how the other can use the system and then really the collective. But I do think there’s a couple pieces here that are really standing out. One, I do think just for the audience who’s new to you, understanding a little bit of your story and what you were

Suzanne Roberts (07:04.378)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (07:15.956)
using that polarity system for, but also I’m totally new to this polarity system. So I need a foundational kind of education on what is this? How does it work? But I think maybe as far as I understand, it came out of you wanting to support your trauma metabolizing and tending.

Suzanne Roberts (07:24.486)
You

Suzanne Roberts (07:37.935)
Well, I found it in dead it supported my trauma metabolizing. So to I’ve had to really work on how do I talk about my trauma so it’s not so overwhelming, because you’ll have to read more of it in the book than to hear it here. Because it’s it’s

Leigh Ann Lindsey (07:52.174)
Mmm.

Suzanne Roberts (08:00.433)
Because I’m also doing a documentary and the first thing I saw on the documentary that they were going to put in, I’m like, you cannot put that on a screen. So then I went to somebody’s office and I reworked how to talk about it. So I’m also saying that here. Just to say it’s is it’s you know, it’s heavy what happened to me and it’s not heavy now for me and it’s heavy. I experienced.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (08:14.869)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (08:21.678)
Yeah.

Suzanne Roberts (08:28.422)
childhood sexual abuse by my father starting at the age of five until I was 11 and it was in very complicated circumstances. There’s more detail in the book, but that’s enough detail. And so two things happened to me from the trauma that are really incredible. One is that in order to survive, I went to a state of holiness.

I call it, found my heroines of grace, mercy and love. So I got held by the eternal ocean of love while horrible things were happening to me. And it’s the only way I could have survived. So that’s important to note. And then,

there’s no way for a five-year-old to understand what’s happening. And my mind interpreted that it was my fault, that I must be bad, that I should sacrifice myself. pretty much dying seemed better than being there. So this thought of wanting to die got in my mind. And those thoughts repeated themselves after the experiences stopped. So here I am, you know, an athletic person and

got good grades in school. Well, I had this internal dialogue going on about hating myself and wanting to die. And I was also good at physics. think that physics gave me something to study that made sense. OK, this lever works this way. Energy moves this way. And I found solace in physics, which could sound strange, but it it was comforting to me. And

Then I was in pre-med and dance. I was a modern dancer and I was studying psychology, a lot of different things, but I really cannot look at a needle or blood or anything. So I decided to not go to medical school. And during that time though, I heard about polarity therapy and it was about energy in relationship to health and, you know, health and healing. And I thought it was crazy. Energy belongs in the physics lab.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:37.423)
Thank

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:49.721)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (10:52.602)
And, you know, I was raised by my mother was a doctor. So. But I ended up in California, I dropped out of school, I went to California and I studied union dream work, Feldenkrais. I studied all. Yeah, I just and I was a seeker and I was I actually went to massage school. I just was like. I studied a salt therapy and then.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (11:05.218)
my god! Amazing!

Suzanne Roberts (11:18.626)
I decided to risk it one day and go to a polarity therapy class and just to see what is energy, what are they talking about? And when I went there, I asked the teacher if he could help me with my neck. And he said, it’s deeper than that.

Suzanne Roberts (11:40.516)
And I’m like, what’s deeper than my neck that I would like you to fix? Like, what are you talking about? And that’s when I got introduced to the, what I call the ideal operating system or the wireless system that operates inside of us. So we can’t breathe or our heart does not beat without a current, right? So.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (11:45.292)
you

Suzanne Roberts (12:07.777)
when that current leaves the body we call it death. So, Plarity is really the study of that current. The way I teach Plarity, don’t, so I’m calling it the Great Reconnection. I’m not calling it Plarity anymore. So, people don’t try to relate to the Plarity therapy world because I don’t teach anything like that or work like that. So, but it is based on Plarity principles. So, but I’m calling it the Great Reconnection to your soul.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:31.971)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (12:37.769)
So, you know, our soul, there is a source of energy for all of life that gives life to all of creation and our soul is a drop of it. But you can’t pluck a drop of water out of the ocean. So we could say the eternal ocean of life is breathing inside of us through our own unique soul and energy has to move between poles. It can’t, right?

So our soul is one pole and the body or the material world is another pole and all batteries need a neutral gradient. In the ideal operating system, your mind would be the neutral gradient. So if you think about it, if your mind is still, then the soul can just operate through form and return to itself. So you would be remembering who you are.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:20.099)
Hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (13:32.429)
You would know that you are a radiant soul that’s a drop of the eternal ocean of love if there was no resistance or interference.

But we have to forget to remember. So the mind has to think it’s the positive pull. Right? So the ego takes over. We start trying to prove our identity by what we are, who we are in the world. We start thinking the world is the destination as opposed to our soul as a destination. And until we have enough longing or missing for the deeper than that, we’ll keep seeking in the world a form.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:47.648)
Uh-huh.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:02.231)
Yeah.

Suzanne Roberts (14:13.477)
fruitlessly, but we will. When that longing or yearning for the deeper than that is strong enough, we’ll start seeking within. And the beautiful thing is that the way we do it is through working to have the mind become more neutral and also cultivating our longing and trusting that the longing has its own impulse towards reunion. We don’t have to force reunion. There’s an

Built into us, our operating system is a return current, which is the longing. You have an outgoing current and an incoming current. That incoming current is an attractive force towards home. So we’re designed to remember the truth of who we are. We are designed to know that we’re a radiant soul. So I had that operating system and I’m looking, going, that makes sense because of physics, this soul.

is operating through form and I hate myself and want to die. And I’m like, how? Okay, if this is true, it’s a law of physics, how can I then restore my mind to this?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:23.781)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Suzanne Roberts (15:25.561)
That’s what.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:28.307)
So many places I want to go here. I think I need to take a second to explain the work I do because they’re so aligned. So I work with individuals experiencing cancer and chronic illness, mainly cancer though, to look at, yes, to support them through the diagnosis so that they have as much peace, and clarity moving through, but to really look at potential emotional contributors to disease. What is unmetallic?

How might this illness not just be my body malfunctioning, but actually my soul communicating? And in fact, that’s what my whole dissertation is on is if cancer is the psyche communicating something, what might that be? And…

Suzanne Roberts (16:05.249)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (16:17.28)
I love that!

Leigh Ann Lindsey (16:19.279)
So, but it’s making me so excited because you’re saying the same thing just in different words of this longing you’re talking about. This is so often, again, what I talk with patients about is your soul is communicating something.

Suzanne Roberts (16:36.505)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (16:37.047)
I might consider myself more of a translator. What is it that it’s communicating? It’s not here to sabotage you. It’s not here to bring you down. It’s only here to support you and love you. And even in this illness, it might be doing that. What might it be longing for?

What are the misalignments it’s asking us to look at? What are the unmetabolized experiences it’s wanting us to be free from? So it’s just, I’m getting so excited because I think we’re so aligned and what we do and really the foundation of that, which is the soul is wanting that ultimate alignment piece, whatever it might be. we’re just, we need better translators.

Suzanne Roberts (16:55.375)
Hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (17:06.883)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (17:20.601)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:22.543)
So that’s so powerful. So what did this look like for you? When you, I mean, we might start with you went in, you asked him to fix your neck and he’s like, it’s deeper than that. There was something in even how they were approaching polarities, the polarity system that attracted you. Something was shifting. Now that was a starting point that you then since created your own kind of process from the great reconnection, but.

Let’s go back to that day with the neck. What caught your attention?

Suzanne Roberts (17:55.555)
I felt like I had language for my heroines.

that I understood grace, mercy and love was always there, but I needed to disconnect it from trauma and have it exist as my own wholeness and holiness that was already residing within me. So what I did was I intellectually knew that this wireless operating system was true.

I can’t fight science. know what I’m saying? just energy moves. That’s how it moves. There is a source. You know, all that was like practical. It was like the infinite made practical.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:40.29)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (18:41.88)
So then I started repeating to myself in the mirror in the most bland way possible, like my soul is a drop of the eternal ocean of love, you kind of like that, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I was like, I just kept saying it because like, if that was true, I wanted to know that truth. And I wanted to know the truth beyond my horror and trauma.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (19:09.484)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (19:10.634)
And somewhere inside, one thing I actually came to terms with writing the book, or maybe I put myself back in therapy for the launch of this book. And I think that I tried to fight my dad physically and I obviously didn’t win. And some part of me thought I lost, but I actually fought the whole time for myself by finding my heroines.

by everything. And so I think that I’m able to see my longing for myself was always there for me, even when it seemed like it wasn’t. And if I just gave a little bit of attention to it, it would work for me on my own behalf without me having to, that. I mean, I did have to.

create a dedicated path of focus and determination. It’s not like I could just sit there and go like this and it was just going to magically happen. But like I had to own that I am a drop of the eternal ocean of love through countless repetitions, you know, until those grooves got as strong as the other grooves and then they became stronger. You know, so we our mind will practice whatever we give it, you know, like so we have to choose

to repeat that which is life-giving versus that which is life-taking. But the thoughts originally were life-giving because they kept me safe, right? So it’s, you know, they’re no longer safe thoughts, but they were safe to survive. And there’s, I think there’s a distinction to make, like to appreciate those thoughts as clever ways to survive, but not to let them lead you for the rest of your life.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:04.527)
completely, this is so, so important, such an important distinction. And what I will say first is the common thread you and I share beyond the work we do now and some of the approaches is I also was sexually abused for multiple years by my father.

Suzanne Roberts (21:19.257)
are you serious? well.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:20.375)
Yes. So, and I think the imprint on me may have been slightly different in that I feel like I’m carrying an immense amount of guilt for being that five-year-old that may be fond and went along with it and didn’t fight because she knew that was the only option she had. the ripple effect I see that having in my life now is still this very, very, this is actually something I’m actively

metabolizing and working on is this very fine line of guilt of like, I acquiesced, I gave in, in fact, maybe I even asked for it just to find and kind of get it over with. So I deserved, I don’t deserve total peace, because I’m seeing like there’s very, very small subtle ways I keep tension in my life. Even though I’ve done so much work.

Suzanne Roberts (22:11.908)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (22:15.479)
to really foster peace and calm and connection. And it’s very, very subtle ways. And I do this work on myself all the time. So it’s coming from a place of me being like, my life is better than it’s ever been, and I still want to be the next best version of myself. So we might circle back to that, but I did think that was important to say so that you know where I’m coming from.

Suzanne Roberts (22:36.216)
Well, but can I ask you a question? Isn’t fawning a fight in its own way?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (22:42.671)
Well, this is where I was leading, which is… I have a lot of…

resistance when we bring in hyper positivity, when people talk about limiting beliefs and you’ve just got to like cut that limiting belief out and bring in the new ones, even some of the the gratitude, I think when it’s not used in the right way, it’s very dismissive of those younger parts who did the only thing they could do.

Suzanne Roberts (23:09.358)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:13.217)
And so I completely, I love what you’re saying, which is that thought pattern that younger you had was protective at one point.

Suzanne Roberts (23:21.662)
and a fight for yourself because you wanted to get it over. To me, that’s a smart move. Okay. Do you know what I’m saying? Like it’s, doesn’t matter what way the fight comes out. I just, it’s my personality to, you know, but like it didn’t work. you know, but like, but your fawning is a smart way to get it over. I’m like, I’m impressed. You know, like honestly, I think good for you.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:25.143)
Yes. Exactly. 100%.

Suzanne Roberts (23:51.234)
You know, like, and like, that’s a very smart move when you’re, you know, anyway. Yeah. Anyway.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:57.003)
Mm-hmm. No. Yes, I completely agree. But the point I’m making there, and you’re making the same point, is…

the beliefs that might have been created from these very real lived experiences, the reality is many of them were true at one point, but they no longer are true now, or it was a misperception. And I just feel it’s so important. Like when you’re bringing in that language of the whole universe is within me, I’m not just a drop or I’m a drop of this bigger ocean.

Suzanne Roberts (24:12.268)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (24:35.991)
We want to bring in those expansive thoughts, but not through this form of dismissal.

Suzanne Roberts (24:41.117)
No, you can’t. I say you cannot get rid of what kept you safe. You just don’t want it to lead you. But they’re a part of me. I created them. They’re beautiful. Even, you know, all of it’s like I and if you kick me hard enough, I’ll go right back there. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t want them gone. They’re part of me. I just don’t want them leading and ruling me. That’s the difference.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:02.383)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Suzanne Roberts (25:11.019)
And I don’t like the spiritual bypassy thing where we’re just like, peace, and love, you know, like it’s real in here, you know.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:19.171)
Completely, Well, totally because we are a spirit, we are a soul, we have an immaterial part, but the reality is we are on this earth and there is a material part of me and that material part also deserves witnessing and acknowledgement and validation.

Suzanne Roberts (25:37.548)
Yes.

Yes, absolutely right there with you.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:42.703)
So now explain a little bit more because I’m still trying to wrap my head around. get the concept of the great reconnection. What does this maybe look like in practice?

Suzanne Roberts (25:57.43)
In practice, it’s in working to make the mind more neutral. What that means is I use, so if we, I’d have to kind of pull up my workbook thing, but if you can imagine a positive pull of the soul and a negative pull of the body, the mind’s supposed to be neutral, but it’s not, it’s a positive pull.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:13.647)
Thank

Suzanne Roberts (26:22.775)
But like in order to have it move back to neutrality, you have to pick something that’s what I would call a soul quality to govern your thinking or observe your thinking so you can choose. So what is life giving versus life taking? So I use the soul quality of curiosity. So I’m like, rather than.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:45.743)
Okay.

Suzanne Roberts (26:48.951)
being punitive towards my thoughts or thinking I’m right or somebody else is right and I’m wrong or whomever. I’m like, let me be curious and look at this. And then once I can do that, I can look and go, is this life giving or life taking? If I’m not sure, I will get a trusted person outside of me to say, can you help me see if I’m actually tricking myself?

or if I’m actually accurate, or if I can feel a reaction inside my body, a reactivity, I won’t respond to anybody. I wait until I have a settled nervous system because even if I’m going to say the right words, I want to say them in connection to someone, not fracturing connection.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:30.571)
Yeah, you’ll, you’ll pump hot.

Suzanne Roberts (27:44.675)
And what I mean by that in connection, still might walk away from a relationship, but I want to do it with care and dignity for me and the other person, or I might stay and change a boundary or whatever. I, um,

I was going to say something there.

I in the book, I make distinctions which I think are very crucial. Like between what is stillness and inner stillness versus sedation.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:15.759)
Mm-hmm. my god, I can’t wait to get into this. Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (28:19.755)
also between aloneness and isolation.

Can you think you might be sitting at home alone at your house, but you’re isolating yourself from yourself and you’re calling it, you know, whatever. But there’s a fine nuance between am I alone in a way where I’m in contact with that living energy inside of me and being nourished or am I alone tucking myself off somewhere and cutting myself off from myself and others and pretending that I’m getting nourished?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:54.805)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay, I’m gonna slow us down for a sec for the audience. When you’re inquiring within yourself, is this life giving or life taking? You’re referring to thought patterns, is that correct? Mm-hmm. And so what I wanna lean in even more though is, because I think this is the distinguishing factor between your work and maybe like spirituality, other things that are a little bypassy.

Suzanne Roberts (28:59.725)
Okay.

Suzanne Roberts (29:08.619)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (29:22.015)
What do we do if we determine this thought is actually life taking? That’s the first step. And if it is life taking, here’s what I’m going to do about that. And I think very often forms that feel a little emotional bypass are this thought is life taking, just stomp it, squish it, push it aside, try and force it out and bring in a life giving thought.

Suzanne Roberts (29:44.835)
know.

Suzanne Roberts (29:48.909)
Well, sometimes I might choose to do something that’s life taking, but I want to choose it consciously. I don’t you know what I mean? Like there isn’t like a perfect or right way to do this. Sometimes I’m like, I just want to numb out right now. I’m just and I have a really good example in my book of a time I can share it here, but I was in a dentist chair and I’m lying on my back and the guy could not get the mold off my top teeth.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:00.665)
Totally.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:07.993)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (30:18.066)
for 20 minutes yanking and I started having a body memory. I’m in the chair and I cannot talk. I’m sweating and I thought, numb, you know how to go numb, just go numb right now because there is no point in you having a full blown body memory in this dentist chair, right? Like that’s what I’m saying. Like that’s me consciously choosing to numb. And then, you know, so what I think

also is confusing sometimes is when the North, when our positive pole is the mind, we sometimes repel things that are life-giving and attract things that are not, which I would call trauma bonding, right? And we are confused about what’s life-giving and life-taking because of our history.

I think the way I refer to what’s life giving is if I can feel more animated inside or more radiant inside versus a dollar inside. That’s my measurement. If it’s like actually enlivening me or doling me, which is a, a, a nuance thing. So I have to know what my own aliveness feels like to be able to make that distinction. But then if I look at something, that is.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (31:31.636)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (31:46.805)
life-taking, I have to sit there and go, I might do a process of what is it that makes this thing that’s life-taking fascinating to me and what’s the cost to me. So I don’t deny that once upon a time there is a benefit to it, but is it costing me now? And if it’s costing me now, then I will be more likely to choose that which is life-giving.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (31:59.725)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (32:12.876)
But I have to be in a process with all of it honestly inside myself.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (32:17.965)
Right. I love this because this is the distinction. Ultimately the goal is to move into life giving thoughts, but it’s so important if I were to use the language I use all the time, it’s… we need to go into relationship with the part of me that’s having this life taking thought.

Suzanne Roberts (32:37.996)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (32:38.625)
And in fact, I might say something like, for example, one of my recurring life taking thoughts is a thought of isolation. I’m in a hard time. I’m overwhelmed. I don’t trust that people can come through for me, so I’m just gonna isolate until I get through this.

I could, I know that’s a pattern for me and when that thought comes up I could just go, my god Leanne again come on how can you be doing this? We know that’s not true, be engaged with people, connect, reach out. Or, which is still very dismissive of that part that’s only trying to protect me, she’s just working on old truths. Or I could turn to that part and be like, hey I hear you.

Suzanne Roberts (33:05.154)
Right.

Suzanne Roberts (33:14.646)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (33:19.062)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (33:24.053)
You see how overwhelmed I am right now. You see how at capacity I am. And you’re trying to protect me with this thing that really did protect me well in the past. And what do you need to say? Tell me. Tell me why it might be fearful to actually go into connection.

Suzanne Roberts (33:32.78)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (33:38.465)
Mmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (33:40.375)
And just going into relationship with that part, and what I find and I say all the time is, I refer to the unconscious or the psyche so much, the psyche is gonna be willing to hear what we have to say, in other words, the life-giving thoughts, once it has first felt.

Suzanne Roberts (33:58.122)
Yes, yes, I totally agree. I love that.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (34:03.215)
And so that completely changes the process. And I think this is just such a powerful distinction because I do think in whether it’s religious rhetoric or spiritual rhetoric, this idea of the ultimate enlightenment is when I get to a place where I never have life taking thoughts.

Suzanne Roberts (34:22.636)
I don’t think that’s true.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (34:24.151)
I don’t either.

Suzanne Roberts (34:25.964)
I mean, I think we’re always in choice. And some days, you know that when the pressure comes, that choice is different and we don’t know when those pressures are going to come. And that day, one day you might go, thank you for helping me survive. I’m going to join you today. Like tomorrow, I’m going to listen to you differently. today, isolation is the key because that’s all I have.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (34:47.427)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (34:54.358)
You know, and that’s okay. It’s like we’re, it’s okay to choose that. It’s not, it’s only if you choose it consciously. If it’s ruling you, then you don’t have any agency. And I want us to have agency no matter what the decision is that we’re making so that we’re empowered to make choice.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (35:15.939)
That’s it, that’s it completely. I talk about this all the time because especially that there’s a lot of nervous system rhetoric and I think what people are absorbing indirectly and unconsciously is, so the goal is to never be dysregulated. And that’s not the goal at all. Maybe the goal is so that…

Suzanne Roberts (35:23.585)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (35:37.185)
I’m having the correct experience for the correct stimuli, meaning when there’s a lot of maybe unmetabolized trauma and chronic stress, I’m going into dysregulation for things that really aren’t actually threats. So yes, if we can settle that a little bit. But also that when I’m dysregulated, because I will be, first of all, there’s times I want to be dysregulated because dysregulation allows me to respond.

sometimes in the way I need. Fight, flight, freeze, fawn, whatever it might be. I actually want those tools. Those are tools. Those are not bad.

Suzanne Roberts (36:03.98)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (36:12.919)
And I think exactly what you’re saying is it’s not that they’re inherently bad, which I think some of the dialogue now is sort of painting them in that way, whether it’s direct or indirect. It’s no, no, there’s just a time and a place and healing is being able to choose rather than feeling compelled or in this compulsion or just like once that part’s here, I’m at the whim of that part.

Suzanne Roberts (36:13.015)
You’re right.

Suzanne Roberts (36:39.584)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (36:41.551)
versus what you’re saying, being able to go, ooh, there’s a part of me coming up saying numbing could be a really useful tool right now. And sometimes we might go, you know what? You’re damn right it is. Let’s go.

Suzanne Roberts (36:51.422)
Exactly. Let’s do it. then because the conscious choice for me to do it in the dentist chair when it was over, I looked at the dental assistant and I said, I just need to tell you that I was having a body memory from sexual abuse. She actually sat down in the dental chair and said, can I give you a hug? And she held me and I just cried, but I came right back.

I’m serious. was so beautiful. because I chose to numb, I can choose to un-numb. But like when numbing happens without my agreement, then it’s controlling me. So I just want to be in agreement with whatever I’m choosing to do and do it consciously so that that’s freedom to me, not perfection of it being a certain way.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (37:24.367)
Exactly.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (37:43.413)
Mm-hmm. That’s it completely. I’ve had an experience recently. It’s so funny because actually in so many, in almost every way, my life is better than it has ever been. And that is actually incredibly dysregulating for me. Right? And so I have been getting triggered over things that I am like, I have never been triggered by silly things like this.

Suzanne Roberts (38:01.336)
I’m sure, yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:12.779)
And finally, maybe two weeks ago, I really sort of acted out in a way that is so unlike me and is not my like most peaceful, calm self. I was journaling, it really rattled me how I showed up and really rattled me. So I was journaling and reflecting on it a day later for like an hour. And I was like, my most scared self got in the driver’s seat.

And cause she’s swerving all over the place and she’s causing accidents. But where it took me beyond that wasn’t to like punish that self. Where it took me was she felt she had to do that because you were ignoring her for so long. And actually if, know, whatever, maybe a week before, two weeks before I had turned to that scared self and be like, I see that you are getting really wobbly.

Suzanne Roberts (38:54.123)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (39:04.463)
talk to me about it, let’s chat through it, feeling that witnessing from me might have allowed her to go, okay, you’re listening, even if you’re still driving me to places I feel a little timid about, you’re listening. So I don’t need to like force my way into the driver’s seat. So it’s a powerful thing that even those of us in this world and in this work, I always have to attend my inner.

Suzanne Roberts (39:29.703)
Always, always, always for the rest of our lives. Really, honestly, it’s where I just tomorrow is Wednesday on my podcast, Purpose for Life. Every other week I do a wisdom and tomorrow I’m reading from my book and talking about life being a kindergarten of life. Like we’re, we’re in kindergarten from birth until death. We’re always evolving and learning and there’s no

here, we’re imperfect and we’re imperfectly learning, but we’re going to keep learning until our very last breath. if we’re not, that’s when I believe we’re stuck. And also if in our imperfections, if we’re not willing to grow from what’s being asked of us to learn, that’s when we’re stuck. But we’re imperfect and we’re ever evolving.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:10.562)
Yeah.

Suzanne Roberts (40:27.913)
I want that youthful innocence to keep discovering and being kind to myself and my learning and explore. the other thing I think is we don’t get new material. I always say it’s like a tapestry that’s already been woven. We just get who we are today to go back to that tapestry.

And so we’re revisiting it over and over again. But people go, why do I have to do this again? I go, what, what new material are you going to get? It’s still you. You’re still this tapestry. You just get to touch it with the greater wisdom and compassion that you have now. So you now bring it back, but you don’t get new material. It’s like there all the time waiting for you, right? Turn back and look, love it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:00.511)
Exactly.

Suzanne Roberts (41:19.381)
Do whatever you want, but it’s still there. You know, it does. It just is.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:21.967)
Well, right. And to that end, the goal isn’t to erase the book I’ve been given and fill it with something new. It is to continue going back to… I really like this because Carl Jung, feel this was such a premise. By the way, Jungian depth psychology is what my PhD is in. So we’re very aligned there.

Suzanne Roberts (41:33.489)
totally.

Suzanne Roberts (41:44.865)
wow, okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:49.391)
even with dream work in Jungian sort of philosophy, it’s not about, well, we have now interpreted this dream in its fullness and we will never need to revisit it again. It’s all about…

Suzanne Roberts (42:01.777)
Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (42:04.627)
just tending it and being in relationship with it. And when I sit with this dream, what surfaces and next month when I sit with this dream, what else might surface? And it’s the same thing with our, our personal life and our inner self and the psyche and our childhood stories and experiences. It’s not to get to this point of perfect. have understood everything there is about my childhood and now I never look at that again.

Suzanne Roberts (42:13.77)
Yes!

Suzanne Roberts (42:28.833)
Totally not.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (42:35.487)
And I think that’s why this work can feel really disheartening because maybe that’s the unconscious feeling is I have got to solve all of this and extract everything from this.

Versus when we take away that like, no, no, we’re going to be, we are ever going to be in relationship with this. And to your point, when I look back on that in my 20s, I’ll pull something. And when I look back in my 30s, I’ll pull something else. And when I look back in my 40s, I’ll pull something else. And that’s not disheartening, that’s exciting for me.

Suzanne Roberts (43:00.053)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (43:05.641)
It’s me too. It’s enriching. It’s beautiful.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (43:10.531)
Yes, I love that. So what I do want to ask and maybe lean into a little bit more is making the mind our best friend. And what does that look like? A neutral mind, how does that look? Again, I’m like really hammering this hard, but what does it look like to make your mind your best friend without dismissing it? And maybe we’ve already sort of detailed that.

Suzanne Roberts (43:34.849)
I think we’ve detailed it, it’s being able to.

observe what your mind, it’s not getting rid of the thoughts, it’s observing them and being in relationship with them. it’s more neutrality is the power of observation. It’s the power of curiosity.

That’s the neutral part that can hold whatever is in your mind. But if your mind is tending to your mind, what?

Okay, but if you have the power of observing like what you’re talking about, I’m going to turn to this part and ask, what does it want to tell me? So you’re receptive to listening. That’s a spaciousness and a graciousness. I would call that a neutral mind. Okay, so that is what I call a neutral mind. It’s not blank.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:32.952)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:38.837)
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Roberts (44:40.422)
It’s available.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:43.031)
Yeah, and it’s not, it’s not emotionless.

Suzanne Roberts (44:49.35)
It is, I would not say the mind, because in polarity in terms of energy bodies, you have a spiritual body, a mental body, an emotional body. So the mind can govern the emotional body in terms of a step down. I don’t think everything’s, anything’s ever emotionless, but not because of the mind, but because emotions are rivers.

They just are, they’re not good, bad, or wrong, but when they get stuck to a story or we project onto the emotion and bind it, then you’re back to what the mind is doing with the emotion, not the emotion itself. Because the emotion is a free flowing, energy, fear is free flowing, sadness is free flowing, right? know, like those just are.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (45:44.813)
Yep. Yeah, and they’re not good or bad. Emotions aren’t good or bad.

Suzanne Roberts (45:46.516)
They just happen. They just happen. No, they just, live in us. They’re part of the human experience. But when we attach a story to it or hold onto it as if, you know, then it becomes something other than what I think it was originally.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (46:03.471)
You know, the imagery that’s coming to me as you’re talking is you were speaking something to like, I’m listening to maybe those life taking thoughts with a neutral mind. I’m just observing it. Maybe I’m getting curious about it. The imagery that was coming to me as you were saying that is when we’re not doing that, it’s almost like when some of these like, let’s say a life giving thought comes up and maybe it’s originating from my seven year old self.

Well, it’s almost as if when I’m not really engaging with it in this intentional way, it’s like that seven year old self is just talking to the seven year old self and they’re just going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And it’s the same person. So of course no other expansion can come in versus when that part is coming through. Can I bring in my higher self or my present day self or maybe even my spiritual self?

Suzanne Roberts (46:42.132)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (46:50.687)
Yes, right.

Suzanne Roberts (47:01.236)
Yes. Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:02.017)
to be in dialogue with that part so that she can have an other to bring in an expansion. We’re saying the same thing, we’re just translating it into…

Suzanne Roberts (47:09.268)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (47:16.394)
I know I just love listening to you talk in your language. I think it’s fascinating. And yes, I disagree.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:23.449)
So this is a fun question that it may be a good place to start to close. What does your daily, weekly, monthly tending process look like now? Does this look like going into meditation? If so, what kind does this look like? I heard you say a lot of nature for you, but what does being in relationship with your inner self look like in terms of inner and outer practices?

Suzanne Roberts (47:49.813)
Well, I’ve been meditating for a long time and I always will. So that’s non-negotiable for me. I find it necessary to build my capacity for stillness and staying with discomfort inside of myself. And I also want to tune into that living energy that’s giving me the gift of life. So it’s a humility practice as well, is like just to tune in and find through stillness, the radiance.

that’s giving me the gift of life. And I do spend time in nature. My studio here is around trees and it’s got cedar in here. I keep in the forefront of my mind that

my soul is operating through form to remember itself and that’s what I’m designed for and cultivating my own longing for returning and remembering and also to pay attention to the parts of me that are calling for my attention. Like I can feel them or sense them and if I can’t, I go get help. But I knew that

visibility with the book in, I don’t know what I was thinking that I’m going to have a documentary. No, I don’t know. I want a legacy for this work, but like visibility is a very threatening thing for my, for my history. And so I put myself back in therapy to be able to be visible and celebrate this legacy. So I’m willing to keep doing whatever work I need to do.

on behalf of myself and get the right kind of help. And I do think a lot of our healing happens relationally. You know, the trauma happened through a relationship and the healing happens, a restoration, inner relationship and outer relationship. And I have trusted people in my life and I’m always working on myself. I want to, I want to keep

Leigh Ann Lindsey (49:51.567)
absolutely.

Suzanne Roberts (50:10.528)
looking within or like for me, this notion of sacrificing myself, you know, I am so much better at it. But then I have people outside of me will go that seems like, you know, maybe you sacrifice yourself there. like, oh, I’m so much better at it. I didn’t notice that. And then I go in and I go, oh, what part of me thought I needed to do this here? What more is possible? But everything that you’ve been talking about,

But I keep working and evolving and becoming the most radiant and apologetic self I can become. And I will work on myself the rest of my life.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (50:49.877)
Exactly. I just love that. When to that end, I’ll speak to something really quickly, which is I’m putting out a book, I’m putting out a documentary. Healing isn’t, for example, if I have a narrative from trauma that it’s not safe to be seen, healing isn’t necessarily getting to a place where I just blanketly go, no, now it is safe to be seen.

Healing is nuance. The reality is, sometimes it is dangerous. Being seen can attract bad characters, but the narrative beneath the narrative is, and I have so much more power and autonomy to protect myself.

Suzanne Roberts (51:17.439)
Thank

Leigh Ann Lindsey (51:33.035)
if I do, you know, some catch the eye of some bad character. But the other point I was making with that is also, it’s like tears. I’m sure in the work you’ve done over the last few decades, visibility has gone up and then gone up. And so this is just a new tier of visibility.

Suzanne Roberts (51:51.709)
Yes, exactly.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (51:53.281)
And so maybe you’ve gotten comfortable with all the tears you’ve experienced thus far. so getting to this new tier, it’s not meant to go, my, still have this visibility thing, why? It’s, of course I do. I’ve never had this level.

Suzanne Roberts (52:07.102)
Yeah. Yeah. And I knew that going in and I just went to therapy with a great therapist. You know what saying? I’m like, I’m going to not do it. Let me put it that way, but I’m going to do it in a way where I’m supported and it’s going to feel good to me instead of horrible to me. Not that I don’t still feel scared or whatever. I’m sure when I walk out on that stage, I’m going to be scared, but I’m also going to be really excited to share.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:12.664)
Exactly.

Suzanne Roberts (52:35.939)
and both are true and I’m prepared for it. But if I wouldn’t have been in therapy the last two years, I would be unprepared for it and it wouldn’t work. So part of it is knowing one’s own self well enough to do the work you need to do so that you’re not like in a stressed place doing it. Does that make sense? Like I’m taking care of it ahead of time so that I can walk out on that stage and

That’s to me, that self love. That’s like, go get the support girl. You know, do what you need to do. If you’re going to go do this thing because you have a longing for souls all over the world to hear about the, you know, the great reconnection and that’s what you want to have happen, then get, get yourself what you need to go do it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (53:22.133)
Mm-hmm. And it’s the opposite of self-sabotage. It’s, you know, it’s allowing you to do that. I wish we could look at emotional tending, spiritual tending, this inner self-tending, the way athletes look at coaching. Athletes aren’t like, ooh, I’m getting ready for the Olympics. Gosh, why do I need this coach still? I can’t believe I’m still such an amateur that I need a coach to take me to the Olympics. No. An athlete is like, I want to get to the Olympics

Of course I need a coach. In fact, I probably need like five, you know, and I wish we could start to look at this entertaining and emotional work in that same way. It’s not, my God, I’m releasing this book and I still need this support. It’s this almost like athletic mindset of, of course, of course I’m bringing some mentorship and support.

Suzanne Roberts (54:00.637)
Yes.

Suzanne Roberts (54:13.064)
Absolutely. And I’ve got a team of people coming that day backstage with me that are going to like stand with me before I go on. I’m, I’m, I’m doing it all.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:24.343)
Yes, I love it. I love it so much. Are you doing the book launch in Ohio?

Suzanne Roberts (54:30.993)
It’s in Columbus, Ohio at a historic black theater and it’s in person and also live streaming. So we’ve got people signed up for both and I’m, you know, it’s amazing. I have a spoken word poet going and I’ve got people that are going to talk about their experiences because in the last part of my book is called Everyone.

And it’s about if life energies in everyone and everything, how come our social systems don’t reflect that? And I’ve done a lot of work around race and my classes are a minimum of 50 % racial diversity. So I have people, black woman, a man that’s seen by the world as black. They’ve got many intersections and a white woman coming up to share their experiences with the work. So it’s in different voices.

and different representations. people, yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (55:27.087)
I am so cheering for you. I want to go on and watch that live stream. It’ll be so so exciting

Suzanne Roberts (55:33.503)
It’s going to be amazing. then Sarah Canell is coming on so with me. So it’s going to be a, I mean, it’s going to be an event because we’re going to do a sitting practice and it’ll be like a little polarity class with a great community of people in the audience will be very diverse. So I love that.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (55:50.735)
Mm-hmm. I love it. Well, I’ll make sure it’s all linked in the show notes, but just for the audience, can you tell them where to go to get the book or register for the live event or just to learn more?

Suzanne Roberts (55:54.898)
Okay.

Suzanne Roberts (56:02.759)
If you go to unifyingsolutions.com and on the top tab is a book portal, which has tons of resources in it, like teaching, videos, meditations. But when you click on it, it’ll say, get your book here and you can pre-order it now. And I can give you the link to get tickets. You can either in-person or virtual tickets through the link. So people can come and…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:25.431)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Suzanne Roberts (56:28.509)
The book should be able to be pre-ordered now through the website. So it’s exciting.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:33.771)
that’s so exciting. Well, Suzanne, this has been such a joy. really was so, so lit up by this. Thank you so much for coming on.

Suzanne Roberts (56:43.593)
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I feel like we could talk for hours and hours and hours. I’m so thrilled with what you’re doing. So thank you for having me.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:52.847)
I’m gonna stay.