THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 227

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:01.538)
Well, Dr. Talia, welcome to the Accrescent Podcast.

Dr. Talia (00:05.68)
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to talk to you today.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:09.57)
When I was going through your social media, there’s just so much that you’re talking about and speaking on and sharing with your community that is so aligned with my audience, the clients I’m working with. So we were even just talking off air. I think there’s gonna be so much crossover and such a lovely back and forth in this conversation. But I always, always love to start with a little bit of an origin story. That way the audience can get a sense of.

Dr. Talia (00:24.195)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:36.874)
you as a person versus you as the practitioner, even though there’s crossover there too, and what ultimately led you to this work. Yeah, let’s start there.

Dr. Talia (00:48.144)
Yeah, great. First of all, I completely agree. Really looking forward to our crossover and to see where we overlap and also maybe where we don’t and learning from each other. So my origin story, like many people, started from personal lived experience. And that is a really important aspect of my work as well. As a kid, I got sick a lot. I had a lot of pain. was all pretty much undiagnosed. There wasn’t really rhyme or reason. I had a

dismissal, misunderstanding, dismissal of myself. But then in my 20s, I started slowly accumulating diagnoses as I saw the right doctors, as I researched the right things. And that snowballed, I would say, into kind of this whirlwind of grief and just overwhelm around how to

meet my goals and be in relationship and just all of these things that I saw for myself while also having chronic illness. And I was someone who was so deep in shame about my body. Like I did not want to talk about my illnesses. I had really core beliefs around unworthiness related to my illnesses and unworthiness related to the fact that my, you know, body wasn’t doing

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:56.526)
you

Dr. Talia (02:11.195)
what most bodies were doing in their 20s and that my abilities were different. And that shame was just so, so entrenched in me and that really, that really impacted my ability for acceptance and also my ability to accommodate myself. That all changed summer 2023 when I got really, really, really sick.

and there wasn’t an opportunity anymore for me to hide from myself. It was kind of this awakening of like, nope, you gotta pay attention. You are, you’re not, you’re not well. Let’s figure out what’s going on. So during that time, I was bed bound for nine months and then majority bed bound for a lot of time after that.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (02:41.536)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (02:54.702)
gosh.

Dr. Talia (02:58.107)
And throughout that process, while I would not recommend it to myself or anyone else, I really had to face my shame, my internalized ableism, you know, my fear of being seen, my lack of acceptance. I had to face all of those things to really survive and to, you know, learn to thrive no matter how cliché that is, and in that way, it has been.

blessing. So that’s been my chronic illness arc. I’d say from the professional lens, I was in a PhD for clinical psychology when I became really sick. Psychology has always been a major interest of mine, you know, people.

Why do people do things? How do we support people? All of that has, you know, I was having like therapy sessions in seventh grade at recess. You know, I always kind of knew that that was something I’d be good at. And it really just felt like such a nice fit to combine my lived experience, my PhD, and also my creativity. I’ve always been a creative person. So content creation and writing and being an entrepreneur really, um…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (03:49.982)
Yeah, totally.

Dr. Talia (04:10.779)
combined to my current business, which is coaching, consulting, and content. And I feel really blessed to be able to do what I do. And also, while self-employment has hard things about it, which I’m sure you may know, it also allows me to listen to my body more than maybe a typical nine-to-five would.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (04:25.826)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (04:34.146)
Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. Like we said, off air, there’s so many places we can go. And I have a couple of specific things in my mind, but I do think what I wanna start with broadly is what do you find clients are coming to you with? Where they’re like, Dr. Talia, can you help me with this? Here’s where I’m really stuck or struggling.

Dr. Talia (04:52.837)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (04:59.476)
Are there common themes that you see kind of repeating with your chronic illness clients? And then we might start to get into some of each of those a little bit deeper.

Dr. Talia (05:07.759)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, great. So people come to me with a variety of concerns. I think there’s often very similar under opinions to those concerns. A major one that people come to me for is acceptance of illness, acceptance of disability, they, you know, if they have a disability and what it means to accept what it means for their life, how to manage it. So acceptance is a part of every single client I work with. Another thing I really work with

people is grief. So we often attribute grief to death, and of course that’s a really salient moment of grief. But there’s a different kind of grief that comes from prolonged, you know, day-to-day grappling with your body, your mortality, your change of plans and identity. So a lot of work we focus on is grief.

And I’d say like the third area maybe shifts a lot between person to person, but some things are, you know, how to advocate and communicate your needs with people around you, how to connect to the body. That’s actually I work on with everyone.

learning to read the body’s signals and be in communication with it because it’s so, so hard to be connected to your body when it causes so much pain and when it makes you feel bad. And so how do we start to build a relationship with the body that has joy, that has safety, while not dismissing that pain and symptoms are a real part of your experience?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:42.456)
Totally.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:46.582)
Yeah, there’s a couple of these I really want to lean into because they’re ones I see a lot too. The grief, absolutely. And then this tension between acceptance of where I’m at, acceptance that parts of this might be my lived experience for a while, if not forever, but then also holding a tension of hope and still caring for my body and not necessarily just throwing in the towel and getting rid of all…

you know, self care and support that we might really need. And then, and the dismissal, the self dismissal, because this is what I see so much. And it’s for me really interesting. I don’t know if you see this, the client, think some of the clients who are the most self dismissive, it’s actually one of the topics we’re talking most about in terms of external wounding from other relationships.

Dr. Talia (07:23.517)
Mmm, yes. Yes.

Dr. Talia (07:40.451)
Absolutely.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (07:41.908)
is how dismissed and unseen and unheard they have felt by other important people in their lives and yet we don’t even realize how much we’re doing that to ourselves in this.

Dr. Talia (07:54.721)
Mm-hmm. thanks so much for bringing that up because that’s also something that I work on with almost every client and I’m actually building a group and a course around this and that’s on the, we’re really not there yet, but it’s in progress. But yeah, this self doubt, this self.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (08:09.015)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (08:14.04)
dismissal, like you said, and it’s often external, initially, but it becomes so entrenched. And that was something that I had so deeply for most of my journey. And I think that once we work to heal some of that, it creates the conditions where you can care lovingly and non-judgmentally for your body. Whereas

dismissive point of view, like, oh, that’s not real, or you’re making that up, or this isn’t really that bad, you know, all those types of thoughts. It’s really hard to meet yourself where you’re at. And it’s really hard to also experience joy where you’re at, because you’re, you know, minimizing or dismissing a reality, which, again, I say as someone who did that for over

decade, 15 years probably, right? And so there’s there’s no judgment, but it’s so entrenched in what the messages we hear from doctors, families, friends, media, everything, right? It’s so entrenched. And I think it’s incredibly powerful when we can have this space and a safe container to delve into how to not do it to ourselves and why it’ll be so beneficial to not.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (09:10.85)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (09:34.838)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (09:38.372)
do that anymore to yourself.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (09:40.939)
you’re taking me to I think a broader point that I actually might have a start with which is really the why. Why, why my shifting perspectives or inner narratives or the way I’m treating myself all these things we’re about to talk about why is it impactful and I think that question is

What are the shifts you’re seeing when you support clients in working through or sitting with or tending some of these different facets of chronic illness? What are the shifts or the positive impact or the positive ripple effect you’re seeing for them?

Dr. Talia (10:14.843)
Yeah, thanks for that question. Really such major positive impacts and ripples, but I guess I’ll start with this little description of I think that when we’re in self-dismissal, when we’re in non-acceptance, there’s this hum always in the background. There’s this hum of am I wrong? Am I, you know, what’s wrong with me? How do I…

fix myself, I’m broken, there’s like this hum always there that takes up valuable resources and energy. And it’s not always conscious, but it’s, it’s working behind the scenes, right? And when that hum is there, it takes away from capacity and energy to put towards other things that might be nourishing, right? And I nourishing, but it could also impact your gut. So literally nourishing, but also,

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:48.431)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (11:11.544)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (11:14.117)
joy, right? That’s such a big part of my work too is when we have this hum of, you know, of that non-acceptance hum, joy is really hard to bring into that picture because there’s not room for it in the activated nervous system because your system thinks like, need to fix myself, I’m broken, I need to survive, I need to keep going. And again, it’s not always conscious, those thoughts.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (11:32.047)
Mm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (11:38.095)
Great.

Dr. Talia (11:41.923)
And so when we start to peel back those layers and work on it, I see clients being able to experience more joy in their lives, actually accommodate their needs, speak up for their needs.

I’m not saying flares never happen, but I think flares do minimize and they do get shorter because you’re able to respond in a calm and loving way. Versus a, what did I do wrong? I need to figure it out. You know, I’m so angry at myself. I’m going to blame myself. All those things that come along with that non-acceptance.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:20.303)
that just exacerbate where you’re already at. Mm-hmm, completely.

Dr. Talia (12:21.751)
It just exacerbates, right? Yeah, so I often say that, you know, for example, stress is often used to minimize people with chronic illnesses, symptoms. And I think an important perspective for me is, okay, stress is not going to cause what you’re going through right now, but it will exacerbate, right? And the stress that we cause ourselves.

is a stress that we have control over. We don’t always have control over what others do to us, external circumstances, life throwing things at you. We don’t always have control over that, but how you talk to yourself, how you respond to yourself, that is something that we can control that can have a really, really positive impact.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:07.439)
100 % and I also think in many cases allow you to move through and navigate those harder moments or those flares smoother and quicker. Where when we’re not exacerbating it with this inner self-criticism or angst or resistance

Dr. Talia (13:20.677)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (13:26.843)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:29.985)
we can actually just sink into it and then move through it so much faster. I use so much imagery and I think the core of my work at its essence is how can we get into relationship with ourselves in the fullness of that, right? Mind, body and spirit, soul, psyche. And so I often will give that imagery, right? Of like, let’s picture another version of ourself over here. And she or he…

Dr. Talia (13:49.721)
Mmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:57.727)
She’s really not feeling good today. A lot of her symptoms are flaring more than normal. And if this was your best friend sitting next to you in this state, are you going to turn to her and be like, I am so disappointed in you right now. How could you be doing this? You’re really lazy. You’re you’re just so sensitive. Or would we turn to our best friend in this state and go, I’m so sorry. I can see you’re in a lot of pain. That makes sense.

Dr. Talia (14:13.946)
you

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:25.741)
I’m here for you, I love you. And just what a difference that makes.

Dr. Talia (14:29.144)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (14:33.408)
Yes, I love the phrase that makes sense. I use that so regularly with myself and with people that I work with because what I’ve noticed is this real underlying belief that people with chronic illness have is that they’re doing something wrong or not right. And so when I say to them, no, it makes sense that you feel dismissive.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:53.913)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (15:01.846)
It makes sense that you feel scared. It makes sense you don’t want to accept this. It makes sense. It’s so, so powerful, those three words. It makes sense. I really love

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:09.219)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:12.95)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Let’s talk a little bit about the grief and what does that look like? Yeah.

Dr. Talia (15:22.404)
Sorry, wait one second before we get into that. There’s a lag and I just want to make sure. It’s been in the back of my head that I don’t know if that’s an issue.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:29.935)
Okay, so it’s not lagging on my, like you’re not lagging for me, but I’m lagging for you. Let me reload my screen really fast. And let’s just see if that’s.

Dr. Talia (15:37.848)
Yes.

Dr. Talia (15:47.491)
Okay.

Dr. Talia (15:53.05)
you

Leigh Ann Lindsey (16:02.624)
anybody.

Dr. Talia (16:04.25)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (16:05.151)
Okay, hopefully it stays and doesn’t start lagging again. Okay. So yes, let’s talk about grief a little bit. What does this look like? How do you start to approach this with clients? And I have a lot of thoughts too, but I want to hear sort of your approach and how you start to navigate this.

Dr. Talia (16:12.378)
We can start the grief again. Here we go.

Dr. Talia (16:19.246)
Yes.

Dr. Talia (16:23.674)
Mm.

Dr. Talia (16:31.322)
I’m excited to hear your perspective as well. It is pretty personalized for individuals, but a framework that I use that is really important is this idea of grief and time travel, sort of, you know, how I describe it. But when you have chronic illness, you’re grieving your past, your present, and your future all at one time, right? And it creates this sense of grief time travel.

just grieving something you’ve lost, you’re grieving something you’re currently losing and a future you thought you might have, right? And so just acknowledging that enormity of how heavy that can be can be freeing for a lot of people. I think then also within that idea is

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:07.701)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:16.417)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (17:22.81)
helping someone understand what grief looks like in this context because it’s not the typical context. know, statements like, I miss my old life or I miss what my body used to be able to do. That’s grief, right? Because there’s a loss there. Or a statement towards the future would be something like, you know, I thought I was going to have this career, but I’m not.

a loss of something in the future. And so the education on what these statements actually sound like can be first a little intense, I think, and difficult to sit with, but ultimately empowering.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:03.369)
Yeah, confronting.

Dr. Talia (18:05.85)
Thank you. Ultimately empowering. So I’d say the first step is always to identify with the person, you know, what are those drivers? Is there grief largely? Past, present, future, is it all of the above? What areas is it related to? And then let’s slowly and safely sit with that grief in the body and learn how to check in when we’re at the limit.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:32.233)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (18:32.26)
Learn how to check in when we’re outside that window of tolerance. Learn how to check in when now is the right time or is not the right time to feel that grief and building that discernment and that skill set. Yeah, how about you?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:46.303)
Yeah, I love that and I want to understand more of what that looks like because I completely agree there’s absolutely a level of titration we have to do with it of sometimes the grief is so immense that we can’t sit with it all at once. We actually have to piecemeal and go maybe there is grief past, present and future but in this moment I need to just sit with the past grief or just the present grief and actually just

Dr. Talia (19:13.284)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (19:16.045)
ladle out a little spoonful that is going to be within my capacity. I want to point out a couple of things you’re saying that are really resonating with me. One is just acknowledging the truth. I think on some level there’s parts of our psyches that are so afraid to confront the heaviness of reality and the truth. And then there’s this other, I think even deeper part.

Dr. Talia (19:19.002)
you

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (19:30.01)
Yes.

Dr. Talia (19:36.964)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (19:43.285)
That’s like, and when you see it and witness it and honor it for all of this truth and heaviness and hardness, the depth of that feeling seen and heard and witnessed, I think is, can be so healing. So it’s really powerful. Just that witnessing of the heaviness of it, but then to be able to, and this is what I want to get more into is it’s, it doesn’t end.

Dr. Talia (19:56.346)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (20:08.553)
Right? Similarly to the loss of a loved one who has passed. It’s not just like, great, we sat with that grief. Now there’s no more and it’s done. And I find that there’s often a little bit of training or conversation that needs to happen with clients around. We are going to have to visit this. Semi-regularly or regularly.

And sometimes what I see often clients having an unconscious narrative is if facing the grief isn’t gonna make it go away, I better just ignore it. Or if facing the grief isn’t going to maybe make my health immediately better, I should just ignore it and not look at it. Because if it’s never going away, sitting with it is gonna be too much.

Dr. Talia (20:43.438)
Mmm. Mmm.

Dr. Talia (20:55.79)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (20:59.827)
And so there’s a bit of a reframe I find I often am doing with clients of it might come back in surface. But again, if we move into this maybe like relational model of, know, today, the grieving part of Leanne is here. And she’s not here every single day, but she’s here today. How am I going to show up for her?

Dr. Talia (21:23.354)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:23.937)
Am I going to like shove her in a closet and duct tape her mouth shut and try and avoid her? Am I going to say, I haven’t seen you in a few months. And like you come bearing heaviness, but I’m here for you.

Dr. Talia (21:27.93)
You

Dr. Talia (21:36.324)
Hmm. Yeah, really beautiful. And I wanted to circle back to something you said about how the grief doesn’t go away, right? And so if I, for example, had a client who said something like, I, what’s the point if it is coming back every single day? You know, it’s something that at least really resonates with the people who work with me and I’m guessing similarly with you is

the idea of not wanting to hold more.

If we’re pushing down the grief, it’s not going away. It is staying there. So we can deal with it now, we can deal with it tomorrow, we can deal with it in a week. But by not sitting with it, it’s not, that doesn’t mean it’s not going away. It’s still, it’s impacting the body, it’s impacting the psyche, it’s impacting how we treat ourselves and our lives. And so that…

can be drawing and it also can really be a light bulb.

thing that I talk about is metabolizing the small griefs instead of the big griefs, right? And so we’re not in a coaching session being like, all right, let us grieve your… don’t know, I’m trying to think of something really big.

Dr. Talia (23:04.633)
Alright, nothing’s coming to mind, so I’m gonna do the, smo- Sure, that, mean, and we might sit with that at some point, but first, to build capacity, to build capacity to grieve something really big like that, if that’s something you wanted, right? Let’s first grieve, today, I have a migraine and I can’t go to the movie I plan to go with my friend, right?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:06.047)
Not being able to have children maybe.

Dr. Talia (23:32.942)
Let’s learn how to move through that small grief so that it’s gone out of the body. It’s not weighing on you, missing out, right? Not being able to do an experience because of your symptoms. Let’s learn how to, you know, on our own, metabolize and work through those smaller griefs so that in a session,

those have been cleared a little bit because we’ve worked on that process and then in a session we might sit with together safely something big like grieving not being able to have children. So I lost my train of thought a little bit but I think the point I’m trying to make here is there are small little griefs that can really add up into a huge blob.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:59.764)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (24:07.68)
Right.

Dr. Talia (24:23.563)
if we don’t have a process in place to sweep them out of the body, right? To acknowledge, to sit with, to offer self-compassion, to not ignore, to move through. And so how do we work through those small things first?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (24:41.921)
Right. And what does this look like for you in terms of equipping your clients to be able to do some of that on their own? The little small things is this reflection questions, meditations, maybe somatic exercises, a combination of all of that.

Dr. Talia (25:00.107)
Yeah, so first we’re doing it in session together, right? We’re modeling it. And so often what that looks like is me directing a somatic type of meditation where we’re getting in the body. I then have clients tell me where in the body is feeling most alive for them. And we say, all right, that’s where the mind, that’s where our focus needs to be today. We’re not questioning it. We’re not thinking about their previous injuries or whatever. Just where is the…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:03.955)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (25:29.665)
current energy and we go to that energy in the body. We focus there. We ask it for a message and we communicate with that part of the body that’s feeling really alive and energetic and emitting something. And often clients will be really surprised what comes out of their mouth. They’re like, I did not expect that it was going to say that. Right. And so learning how to have that conversation that’s really body-based, somatic-based and less in the brain.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:48.798)
Totally.

Dr. Talia (25:58.508)
having- doing that and then also building capacity and skill set around self-compassion. So many of us, all humans really, but I think particularly people with chronic illness are just really bad at self-compassion. You know what? can say that lovingly and also as someone who used to be really bad at it. Like it is just a highly- it’s a hard skill.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:23.862)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (26:23.937)
So let’s learn how to say the thing to yourself, to your body that is going to feel really reassuring and validating and allow you to move through an experience. And then also let’s learn how to come out of it, to get back to the present.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:39.304)
Right, it’s… I mean to this point we’re making the titration of we go into it, we almost open a grieving container, but it’s important that we also close it and know how to close it. And I do think there’s times where we have to go… we’re tuning into this grieving part and it might have a lot more to say but…

Dr. Talia (26:47.939)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:00.894)
now they’ve got to go jump on a work call or pick up their kids from school or whatever it might be. And so how can we lovingly, graciously, empathetically close that container? And for me, so often what that looks like is just dialoguing with that inner self and going, hey, thank you so much for what you shared today. I can’t wait to hear more. That’s all I have for today or that’s all the time, whatever, but I’ll be back.

Dr. Talia (27:21.561)
Mm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:26.912)
And then that commitment to the self to be back and then actually following through on that is what I think also creates so much trust and safety within the mind, body and spirit.

Dr. Talia (27:27.606)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Talia (27:36.502)
Yeah, exactly. And that follow through also, it builds self-trust, right? It builds trust that no matter what’s happening in the body, you have some anchor in yourself that you will know how to handle it. And that’s something that also is such a major goal of mine when I work with clients is to instill that self-trust and to instill that belief.

in themselves, no matter what’s happening in the body. And of course, easier said than done. But to still know like, I’m having a really rough health day and I trust myself to act in a way that will support my needs and myself.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:09.025)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:22.837)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (28:27.161)
And my symptoms don’t shake that foundation to its core.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:33.76)
Yeah, yeah. What about do you see this often the belief system or narratives that my body has betrayed me?

Dr. Talia (28:43.011)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:45.76)
And I think that goes in line with the grief. And if that shows up for you, how might you approach that?

Dr. Talia (28:49.113)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (28:55.221)
Yeah, I mean that shows up for me personally still, right? And I… and it was, I would say, a really integral belief of mine probably three years ago. And now it’s not all the time, but sometimes I’m still like, gosh, I’m doing everything. Like, why are these results coming back like this? Or…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:58.677)
Yeah

Leigh Ann Lindsey (29:16.652)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (29:22.057)
is it right and so I just I so personally understand that feeling of betrayal and I think that allows me and likely you as well with your clients to to relate on that level where I’m not like no don’t believe your body’s betraying you I’m like I get it I get how it feels to feel like your body’s betraying you

Leigh Ann Lindsey (29:38.976)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (29:45.529)
Honestly, I feel like that one I tried really carefully around because one of my…

I think the ideologies and working with people is that no thoughts are wrong, no emotions are wrong. I’m not someone who says, let’s evaluate this thought as true or not true. Like, let’s, you shouldn’t believe all your thoughts. I’m someone who says, that thought’s coming up. It has something to tell us.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:18.166)
Right, completely.

Dr. Talia (30:19.285)
So my body’s betraying me. It would be one thing for me to say like, but it’s giving you messages. It wants you to tune in. It’s trying to reconnect with you. Sure. And I think actually the core healing thing in that moment is.

heart is it to feel that way? And just validation. Yes. Yeah, I’m curious what your thoughts on that though. Because that’s something that I still, I could say I’m workshopping.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:39.872)
and maybe allowing that anger to be expressed.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:50.378)
Yeah, yeah, you know a phrase I come back to and share all the time with clients is the unconscious or sometimes I call it the inner self will be willing to hear what we have to say once it has first felt heard. So when something like my body has betrayed me that’s coming up.

I tend to go, let’s just let that part say whatever the fuck it wants to say and go off no matter how dramatic or extreme or whatever our conscious brain might think of that. Let’s just let that part go off because it’s not going to have the capacity or be willing to hear anything else we might want to offer it until it has first felt heard and witnessed. And to that end, I think the essence of it is it’s so bio individual. It’s

Dr. Talia (31:18.489)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (31:37.027)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (31:43.122)
the psyche that’s feeling this, what does it need to express? Yes, but what does it need to hear to be able to move into a different space? Whatever that different space is. And for some of these it might be there is a little bit of reframe we might be able to move into. And for some it might be then moving into the grief of

Dr. Talia (31:50.391)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (32:04.695)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (32:06.6)
No, nothing is shifting this belief. I really do feel my body has betrayed me. And so how can I just sit with that part that feels this? And I might have to show up and sit with that part each week, each month. So I think after that part has been allowed to express where we go from there is so unique and bio individual. Cause what could be amazingly expansive for one client might not be the thing that’s expansive for another.

Dr. Talia (32:13.719)
Exactly.

Dr. Talia (32:28.419)
you

Dr. Talia (32:33.131)
Yeah, it sounds like we’re really on the same page there, letting that really be expressed, understanding it’s coming from something that needs to be heard, and going from there, I think that myself included and people I’ve worked with have really come out of that thought of my body is betraying me. They have had a shift in that belief, but it’s been really personalized.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (32:42.976)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (32:58.443)
in a way that I don’t yet really see the A to B, this is a thought and this is how we change it. It’s just been a really personalized journey for everyone.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (33:06.037)
Right.

Dr. Talia (33:12.441)
So I’ll be curious to see over time if I have more thoughts on it. It’s definitely something that’s on my

Leigh Ann Lindsey (33:19.798)
yeah, completely. This leads me into acceptance versus hope for change or whatever the opposite might be. And first of all, how having this tension can contribute to more emotional turbulence and maybe therefore more physical turbulence within the body. But it’s a really hard one, I imagine, right? Because it’s

Dr. Talia (33:36.409)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (33:43.147)
It is.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (33:44.224)
I think on some level there’s unconscious belief systems of if I really accept where I’m at, I’m giving up. But then at the same time on the flip side of it, a lack of acceptance can also be this version of I think emotional bypassing and unconscious dismissal of our current lived experience. So how do we navigate this tension?

Dr. Talia (33:52.633)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (34:09.497)
Absolutely, it’s complicated, just like you named it, right? It’s really complicated. I think it could be helpful to start with what acceptance isn’t. So acceptance isn’t giving up. Acceptance isn’t indulging in yourself. Acceptance isn’t saying you’re not going to pursue treatment. And acceptance isn’t…

you’re not going to research anymore or see new doctors, right? So those are all the things that people sometimes have ideas about acceptance that I would not label as acceptance. So what would I label as acceptance? For me, acceptance is being rooted kindly and intentionally in your reality and your present moment. So that means, okay, today,

This is the capacity of my body. Today, this is how my body is working, what I’m experiencing. How can I make decisions based on that, that support me, that nourish me, that allow me to move towards goals that I have? But that’s you know, dismissing the reality of my life, right?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (35:32.15)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (35:33.018)
I’ve definitely been the person who said, well, I’ll be fine in a month, so I’ll do X, Y, and Z then, right? And that’s fine. It’s okay to have goals. And you think a more grounded position that I have found for myself and with others is, all right, let me check in. What’s my reality? What would be really kind to myself right now in terms of goal setting, treatment, you know?

my mental health, how do I support myself with the reality of where I am? And so that actually, that acceptance is actually fueling.

healing in some ways, in a way that people think acceptance will get in the way of healing. But when we really sit in that acceptance, we meet ourselves where we’re at, which allows us to give the body the healing ingredients that it needs. So yeah, I hope that anyone listening who is within that tension of acceptance, hope, etc.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (36:16.172)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (36:36.761)
can hear that and think, okay, acceptance doesn’t mean I don’t want to get better or I don’t want to have a different test result or I don’t want to have more capacity in XYZ area. It doesn’t mean those wants don’t exist. It just means let’s see where you are now and make kind decisions to support yourself.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (36:57.428)
Yeah, you know what I’m hearing and what you’re saying? Like the unconscious inner narrative is beneath the difference between these two is acceptance of where I’m at currently while still wanting to support my health and pursue better health is the difference between this inner narrative of, hey, Leanne, I’ll love you and accept you again once you’re healed rather than, hey,

Dr. Talia (37:12.398)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (37:26.794)
I’m still pursuing more health and growth and whatever that is and I love you and fully accept you as you are right now still.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (37:38.518)
Hmm.

Dr. Talia (37:38.874)
Absolutely. Right? If we’re operating from a place of, don’t, I’m not worthy of love, I’m unlovable because of this, it will always have a certain tone, any action, right? Versus if we’re operating from, love myself so I’m gonna support myself. Which includes working towards healing goals, right? Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (37:55.883)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:07.008)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (38:08.249)
was a really, really nice point.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:10.036)
Yeah and I just let’s think about the difference that makes if there’s an inner self who’s like my god I am going to be denied love and acceptance until blank. You know it’s almost that paradox of when there’s that pressure there you you kind of stumble and mess up more. And and so versus the safety and the calm that it creates when the inner self is like

I am so loved and accepted as I am currently. And she wants to help me get to a better place too. That’s great. But it does, you know what it’s making me think of is my own fears that actually get stirred up with acceptance, which is I think I have a fear that I will lean too much into the enabling of…

Something like I and really what this stems from is a lack of trust with myself Like if I really accept some of my hard days, I’m I’m currently working through mold toxicity So I have hard days. I have daily symptoms of things I’m experiencing I think there’s a very real fear that I will just sink into Letting everything I’ve built fall away you know rotting on the couch day in and day out and

And it’s coming from some lived experience that I really struggled for a long time with self-sabotage. So I get why there’s this inner Leanne who’s like, look girl, you kind of have a history of doing this. So let’s just keep a pulse on this. But there is like, if I’m being honest, there’s a part of me that’s afraid of real acceptance means you’re going to air too far on this side of the spectrum. And we just go from one extreme to the other.

Dr. Talia (40:02.531)
You’re not alone in that. I hear that really frequently. So maybe we can talk about it a little bit if that works for you. I know you just shared something a little personal, but I think it would be fun to brainstorm about it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:08.745)
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Talia (40:17.849)
The self-trust piece that you named, it is really important, right? And so, do we trust ourselves to come out of rest, to come out of… Well, so there’s that, but then I think maybe the self-trust that’s even more salient here is, do I trust myself to know my needs and how they change? And that is just a tough code to crack.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:40.065)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (40:46.059)
especially when they change every day. So I think, you know, in those cases, you for clients who are thinking, well, if I get out of this mindset of I need to fix myself, need to, you know, I’m not okay as I am. I’m, well, indulge if I accept, right? It’s okay. Well, where can we strengthen some of that inner trust?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:49.194)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (41:15.871)
that in a moment when you have a choice, which is almost every moment of the day, but a moment when you have a choice that you more times than not choose the one that will be, you know, beneficial for you. And so I think that’s not saying every time you’re going to do that and being kind to yourself when you don’t.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:35.646)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:41.804)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (41:43.62)
but slowly building up that evidence that you do make the choice that feels good later on. And that when you make a choice to rest or when you make a choice to do any other type of thing that’s accommodating, that that is actually often a better outcome first, a better outcome sometimes. So maybe even charting those outcomes, like, okay, right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:52.128)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (42:10.489)
I’m gonna see what it’s like to take half a day off because I’m struggling with this symptom. I’m worried that…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (42:19.169)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (42:19.319)
see what happens if I do it for half a day. How do I feel after? And do I start doing it every day? And maybe that’s some information and data for what you can do next time.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (42:28.982)
Totally. You know, this is really powerful because what it’s highlighting for me is…

I actually don’t trust myself with knowing what do I actually need today because I will say, I think I went from that extreme self-dismissal and being a collegiate athlete and a professional athlete and just deny, deny, deny, push through, everything hurts, everything’s painful. And for so many different reasons, I think the childhood trauma that I had to deny from such a young age to the far other extreme, is…

Dr. Talia (42:50.061)
Mmm.

Dr. Talia (42:55.161)
No.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (43:04.284)
never miss one symptom, honor everything, say no all the time. And if I’m being totally honest, I think I’m in a little bit of a phase of if I have to choose, I’m always gonna err on the side of doing less, not pushing myself too much. And what you’re bringing up for me is I think it’s created a little bit of this inner tension or inner war between different parts of me. And there’s…

Dr. Talia (43:08.569)
you

Leigh Ann Lindsey (43:30.186)
There’s the part that sometimes feels ill and is recovering from mold toxicity and trauma still emotional trauma. And then there’s this ambitious like dreamer self who’s like, I think we have more in the tank than you think. Like I so often dialogue with myself of like, I feel like I’m putting the brakes on and why do I keep pumping the brakes? And did I really need to pump the brakes? But I think, and this is a great segue into

the hypervigilance that chronic illness creates and excuse my language, like the mind fuck of chronic illness. There’s, the experience of it. And then there’s the, no, I have a headache today. is that this thing? You know, is this, mold neuroinflammation flaring again? And, and if I don’t rest excessively today, is it going to spill in tomorrow? And then the whole week and then

Dr. Talia (44:03.213)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (44:17.165)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:27.342)
my God, I only have two days this weekend to really recover. So am I ever actually going to be able to get ahead of it? And that is the whole sort of like instantaneous unconscious dialogue. I think the mind goes through, but for myself, I’m speaking for myself only. I do think it’s that process that honestly leads me to say no and pump the brakes a lot more than I actually need to.

Dr. Talia (44:52.857)
I hear you and it’s a really difficult balance and the hard part is that there are no right answers and there are no wrong answers and we’re often similarly to our bodies and our health trying to find the right answers for how to care for ourselves and there’s no list that we can check off. There’s no, you know, textbook we can read that

says, okay, do this, do this, and then you’ll be good. Right? And so we’re always having a little bit of trial and error, a little of guesswork, and it makes really sense to- a lot of sense to me that someone, you know, you or anyone else who has been on both sides to say, okay, but which one do I listen to? And where am I now? And that- that takes time to recalibrate, and that takes time to-

Leigh Ann Lindsey (45:45.302)
Yeah.

Dr. Talia (45:55.434)
inner knowing. Clear clarity, inner knowing about and I think kindness about that process, kindness around. Okay, I’m having both of these parts, they’re both showing up, I don’t know which one to listen to, I’m not pushing myself, I’m being too lax, those are- that’s coming from somewhere.

They’re all here. I’m at a I’m at an inflection point in my journey right now where I’m changing into a middle ground Maybe and that’s actually really exciting. It’s maybe a little scary. It’s a new skill set. It’s a new way to be But how amazing is it that I am now approaching this point in my life this Inflection point where I’m out of hyper vigilance. I’m out of push push push

and I’m figuring out the middle. Amazing. Right? That’s the goal.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (46:48.662)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I think it’s the difference between making decisions from a place of fear and this conversation is really highlighting actually how often I’m still making decisions from a place of fear as it pertains to my health. But to that end, I think we need to bring in a third part, which is there’s this fearful part that is like pumping the brakes and maybe causing me to say no and do much less than is actually necessary. And then there might also be this dreamer part who’s like, we can do it all, come on. And I think we need to bring in this third maybe

Dr. Talia (47:04.601)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (47:16.899)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (47:21.293)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:23.789)
highest self, wise, grounded part that can facilitate the dialogue between both of them and then ultimately make that decision of what is most aligned.

Dr. Talia (47:25.657)
Mm.

Dr. Talia (47:39.001)
yourself part, learning how to connect to it. It’s pretty life changing.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:42.966)
Yeah.

But it’s important too, because what I’ll say is, and I think this brings us back to the paradox and the tension of honoring and acceptance while also pursuing health and healing or more health. Because I will say, I do think at some point, especially when chronic illness has been just that chronic for years and years and years, our own narratives, I think, can keep us from

Dr. Talia (48:00.686)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (48:13.494)
getting to a different place of health. I remember I’m thinking of a client who experienced sort of a big emotional trauma paired with COVID. And I think that mixture together just really knocked her out. And that bled into years of malaise and chronic illness. And as she started healing and recovering, we were doing a lot of emotional and trauma work together. I remember she went out on a long walk for the first time in like four years and she was like,

Dr. Talia (48:23.545)
you

Leigh Ann Lindsey (48:42.976)
You know, I’m bummed. I thought I was going to be able to do that, but then it’s the next day and I’m so sore. Clearly that was too much for me. And I was kind of like, let’s hold the tension here of you haven’t moved your body in that way in four years. That makes sense that you’re sore. So this limiting narrative I think we often have coming out of chronic illness that

Dr. Talia (49:01.529)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (49:09.788)
Any discomfort or pain is directly caused by the illness rather than I just haven’t worked out in three years. So of course I’m sore.

Dr. Talia (49:17.721)
Right? Exactly. And those stories that we have and the narratives that we have about ourselves are protective and they’re trying to keep us from experiencing the really intense emotional and or physical pain that we have been through chronically, right? So they’re there for a reason. And I’m in a similar place. I actually, have a yearly goal. It’s like, it’s not a resolution. I’m sorry, not a goal.

It’s not a resolution, but it’s a motto for the year. And I just collaged my motto for the year last night. And it’s, stories are for books, is the motto. And the idea of it is that I don’t want to be operating on stories I have about myself and other people in the world. I want to be in the present of what is now so that I can release and shed.

those beliefs I have about my body, my abilities, how people, what people think about my body and abilities, how I can, what type, you know, I just want to have less of that.

So it feels really eerie a bit that you brought this up since it wasn’t something we had talked about chatting about either. And yeah, that’s my motto for 2026. So if anyone else wants to join in.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (50:42.514)
It’s beautiful. You know what I and what I hear beneath that too is stories are also permanent. You know the stories of history are permanent. They can’t be changed. So when I’m telling myself stories about my health there’s a permanent element to that that maybe we don’t want to hold.

Dr. Talia (50:51.865)
Mm.

Dr. Talia (51:07.993)
Okay, right, and that makes me think the journey then becomes what is truth, which is, I mean, what is truth in general? But what is the truth of my health? And what are the stories I’ve added to it? And this can come-

from both directions. This can come from somebody who is not acknowledging their illness, who is pushing beyond, who is crashing consistently. It can come from that end, and it can come from the other end of, because of my illness, I can’t do anything. I am not gonna, you know, I can’t have joy, can’t have the type of life I want, right? It comes from both ends. Those stories, and can we really distill what is the core of the facts of…

This is the reality of my health of my body. What am I adding to it? Or what am I shielding myself from?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:09.398)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, absolutely. How do you, I do want to lean a little bit more and get maybe more practical and specific on the hypervigilance piece. And I, especially with working with so much cancer, I see this all the time. This is one of the biggest sort of post-cancer when clients are in remission, kind of new elements of it that surfaces. It’s almost like once they’re in remission, that’s actually when the hypervigilance hits so hard.

I have a pain in my elbow. Is it cancer? You know, I’m going to a birthday party and there’s cake. If I eat this piece of cake, will cancer come back? I didn’t sleep well last night. Is something happening? And so I’d love to hear.

Dr. Talia (52:42.361)
Don’t surprise me.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:57.054)
We’ve already talked about this a bit, of the reframes and just sitting with it, think also from personal levels, but what does that look like when you’re working with clients and are there some practical tools or supports or resources that you might give them to navigate that when they’re out on their own?

Dr. Talia (53:13.433)
First I want to how understandable it is to be hypervigilant when you’re in a body that something drastic happened to and you didn’t see it coming, right? When we think about PTSD, we don’t always attribute medical PTSD as part of it, but it’s part of it. It’s part of it, right? So this…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (53:33.512)
obviously you’re right. Yep.

Dr. Talia (53:38.67)
damage and danger to your body occurred and you likely didn’t see it coming. And so it is understandable to want to have control and power to prevent it because often the narrative you’re fed, we’re all fed, is

Do these things and you won’t get cancer. Do these things and your fatigue will be better. Eat these foods and your energy will be right. We’re constantly being told what we need to do or not to do for an outcome. And of course, of course, things have an impact on your body, but it’s incredibly easy to internalize the message of if I’m just so aware of everything

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:13.472)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (54:29.995)
surrounding and my body and all of those articles and listicles that I’ve read, I will be able to prevent this. And so what’s underneath that? Underneath that is self-blame. A lot of us are blaming ourselves for what’s happened to our bodies and

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:37.473)
Yep.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (54:42.912)
Yep, exactly.

Dr. Talia (54:51.545)
Sitting with self-blame is another one of those really intense, really big things to do in a self-in-out container, but having the awareness of that.

can cascade and have an impact. To get a little bit more concrete when you’re maybe a little further along in that journey, I just talked to a client this week about is something like an aura ring or a Fitbit or your symptom tracking app actually helping you? Let’s weigh the pros and cons here. How do you react when you see this from the app?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (55:22.722)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Talia (55:29.337)
How does it help you? How does it hurt you? Let’s actually tune into the body. Does it disconnect you from your innate wisdom of your body? Or does it help you connect to your innate wisdom? And there’s no right or wrong here. It really depends on the person. But often for people with hypervigilance, it can go into the disconnection point. And the…

The motivation of those apps is to connect you, not to disconnect you. So if it is disconnecting you, which will look like, you know, an alert shows up and you’re like, actually I feel fine today. Or you see a readiness score that’s really high and you think, but I feel like I’m dead today, right? Like, am I wrong? So those disconnects, just kind of tuning into them and how they make you feel and also how seriously you take them to decide whether is now.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (55:58.432)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:12.854)
Right.

Dr. Talia (56:24.106)
a good time for me to be using this type of technology or should I take a break from it? Is it connecting me or disconnecting me? You know, for myself on my own journey, I’ve had different periods where it’s been really helpful or not helpful. I’m currently in a period of not helpful and that has meant for the first time in over two years I’m not symptom tracking anymore because I recognize it was not adding to my life in any substantial way.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:41.826)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:52.778)
Wow.

Dr. Talia (56:52.948)
So if that’s you, think is it feeding into the hypervigilance to allow you to feel that control or is it actually giving you insight into your symptoms, which for many months it did do that for me. So again, it could be both depending on where you are. So that’s one thing I would suggest. The second is to find…

little things you can control related to your body. Because hypervigilance, again, often born out of lack of control. And so what’s something you can’t control? You can control, know, you have a headache. Do you, is there a medication you take? I have this acupressure band I put on my thing, on my forehead. They can’t see me.

you know, what’s something you can add to your experience that makes you feel more in control of it? So you’re nauseous. Is there a tea that helps you when you’re nauseous so that you can bring that in? Let’s focus it in the current moment, again, versus the stories. And then if over time it’s feeling concerning, of course, you know, reach out to a medical professional. bringing it a little bit back.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:01.237)
Right.

Dr. Talia (58:05.644)
to the present of, what can I do right now that will support myself with these symptoms instead of jumping a lot of steps ahead.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:13.108)
Yeah, I love that. I think it’s so beautiful. Sometimes a piece I bring in and again, it’s all just so nuanced is to your point, a lot of it is stemming from the unconscious. I think going, okay, well hang on. If this thing happened, I must not have been vigilant enough. My radar wasn’t scanning enough and that’s why this happened.

So to make sure it never happens again, I always have to be constantly scanning. And I think there’s some potential reframes here of is that really why this happened? Because I wasn’t paying enough attention and there’s often a little bit of shifts we can make there. But to that end, sometimes what I also help us bring in is let’s remind this fearful part that just because you’re not anxious,

Dr. Talia (58:55.202)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (59:08.096)
doesn’t mean you’re not paying attention. And I think sometimes the psyche links these, Leanne, outer Leanne, like, you don’t seem worried, so you must not be paying attention to my health. And allowing that inner self to see, I am totally paying attention. In fact, look, I have follow-ups with my doctors every three months this year.

Dr. Talia (59:11.828)
Dr. Talia (59:22.424)
I love that.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (59:32.77)
and I’m taking my supplements diligently, I’m checking in, I have all of these checks lined up, so I am totally paying attention and just because I’m not anxious doesn’t mean I’m not and sometimes I think that’s a little bit of a expansive belief or thought we need to bring in for the unconscious.

Dr. Talia (59:52.249)
That’s a really important point. I had to put those two together and I will definitely be internalizing that and sitting with that, so thank you.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:00:02.28)
Yes, I love that. This was amazing. I feel like there’s so many places we could go. I mean, we could have spent an hour just on grief. And I also wanted to sit with some of these other pieces. But before we close, anything we didn’t cover that you do feel is really, important. We’ll get to kind of where people can find you in a second. But is there anything that we left out or didn’t cover that you feel is really important?

Dr. Talia (01:00:11.764)
I know.

Dr. Talia (01:00:30.656)
The one thing I’ll say to close for anyone listening is that you’re not broken, you are lovable, and I believe you, and I hope that you can believe yourself and your experiences as well.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:00:45.698)
That’s so lovely. Thank you. What does it look like to first where can people find you? Where can they learn more? How are you working with people, companies, corporations? What are some different ways people might be able to work with you?

Dr. Talia (01:01:02.732)
Thanks for asking so you can find all information about me on my website, which is dr. Talia phd.com dr Talia PhD calm I’m also dr. Talia PhD on Instagram and on sub stack if you want to subscribe to my newsletter and can chronically Talk about a lot of the types of things we talked about today there for coaching you can read about my process and my offerings on my website and book a

discovery McCall. do a 15 minute free discovery call to make sure it’s a good match, a good fit, that both people feel like it’s aligned. And yeah, if you have any questions, they, you anyone can reach out to me on Instagram, DM or drtaliaphd at gmail.com.

That’s for individuals. also have a guide out. It’s called What I Wish Your Therapist Knew About Chronic Illness. It covers some of the things we talked about today, but also a lot more. It bridges my lived experience and clinical care, and it’s for people with chronic illness and also the therapists and coaches that support them. It’s an all-encompassing, easy-to-read and actionable guide that people can purchase if they’re not looking for one-on-one coaching, but a resource to use to support

themselves as they are in care or seek care.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:02:24.034)
I love it. We’ll make sure it’s all linked in the show notes below. And again, thank you so much, Dr. Talia. This was so lovely and I think gonna be just resonate with so, so many.

Dr. Talia (01:02:37.145)
Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation.