THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 185

[00:00:00] Hello, welcome back to the Accrescent Podcast. I’m your host, Leigh Ann Lindsey. I feel like it’s been a while since I’ve shared any updates, life updates. I think part of this is because this last quarter, the last three months have been really, really intense with my PhD program. This quarter in particular has been really taxing with the workload, and so I think part of me these last few months has just been, put your head down, do what you gotta do to get through this and just keep managing everything.

And so I think by the time this episode goes live, I will have just been finishing up with my finals for this quarter. So I hope that as you’re listening to this, I am sitting somewhere relaxing, feeling amazing that the quarter is over. It’s such amazing information, I think. It’s not to [00:01:00] that I’m complaining or that I don’t love it.

It is absolutely my dream program and for those who may not know, I started my PhD in depth psychology last year in depth psychology and integrative healing last year. And it is everything I could have ever hoped for and more. And of course, kind of the nature of a PhD program is just very rigorous studies, reading, writing discussions.

But it’s everything I could have ever hoped for and just such amazing information that is already bringing so much wisdom and knowledge and soul into my life and through that into my practice and clients. So every piece of it is so enlivening, and also sometimes it’s just a lot. So I’m very excited for this quarter to be coming to a close.

I’ll have about a two week break and then we’ll be going right into, [00:02:00] um, our next quarter. So not too much time to recover, but I’m sure I will do my best to use that time wisely. I think I’ll probably be releasing a conversation between Kelly and I, more of a personal conversation between Kelly and I to also just kind of touch in, maybe share some of my personal updates and insights over the last few months, but also there is a, a very recent topic that I really wanna talk about and share with you all through a conversation with her.

On the podcast of some, some heavy things that have come up for me recently, how I’ve navigated those with the tools I use with my clients. And uh, you know, what I started noticing, but also some really big I feel epiphanies I had for myself in processing this thing that has surfaced for me recently. So that should be coming soon too, as well.

I think I felt like taking a second, ’cause when I just jump right into the intro of the guest, it makes me feel [00:03:00] like I’m not really getting to connect with you all. So I thought it might be fun this week to take a second to just pause and give a couple little short updates. But with that, today we have on the podcast Dr.

Andrea Orvieto. Who is a distinguished acupuncturist and wellness expert who leads Sola Acupuncture and Wellness in Florida. Dr. Andrea holds both a master’s and a doctorate from Pacific College of Oriental Medicine and is a fellow of the Acupuncture Board of Oriental Reproductive Medicine. As a doctor of acupuncture, she specializes in treating in fertility and supporting couples on their journey to parenthood.

This was really special because as you guys know, anyone I’m looking to have on the show, or anyone Kelly might be suggesting to me to have on the show, it’s so important that they take a more holistic integrative. Nuanced approach to the work they are doing to the [00:04:00] specialties they are addressing. And when I did a poll a few weeks back of topics you guys would be interested in, hearing infertility was one of these.

And Dr. Andrea Orvieto is one of the guests we researched that I felt would bring a really, really nuanced perspective to this topic. And so we start by talking about how her approach goes so far beyond what a conventional medicine approach to infertility looks like. How her testing, her diagnostic, her treatment goes much, much further beyond that.

We also talk about why she feels it is vital for both parties in the couple to be attending sessions, getting testing and getting treatment. And then we talk about some of the most common contributors to infertility that she sees based on her, her patients, as well as some just general. Tips, lifestyle habits that she feels are impactful and wonderful for anyone to follow if you are looking [00:05:00] to get pregnant.

So please enjoy this conversation with Dr. Andrea Orvieto. I. Well, Dr. Andrea Orvieto, welcome to the Accrescent Podcast and the Accrescent Community. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here and chat with you. This was a conversation that I did a poll on, you know, with my audience of topics that they were wanting to hear about and infertility was one that, that was coming up a lot in that feedback response.

And so between my pod, my podcast coordinator and I, we did some research around who would be really good guests to have on for this topic. And I, I loved your approach. I love the expertise you bring to this, so I’m really excited to be able to share your insight, your experience, your wisdom on this topic today.

I, I appreciate that so much, and I’m excited to share what I have to offer, and I love that infertility is, uh, becoming more and more spoken about that it’s not so, um, hush hush. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:06:00] it’s sad. Yet with more information, we can do something about it. Yeah, completely. I know, I’m so excited to hear more of your, your perspective.

’cause this really is more of your specialty. You support many other things within your practice and your clinic, but this is kind of what you’re, you specialize in it sounds like. Yes. Yes. Exactly. So I, you know, I always read your bio at the start in the intro, so people have already heard that. I think a good place to start is actually defining acupuncture and a little bit TCM, because I do think these are words in some ways we hear so much that I think people are familiar with the terms, but still might actually not know what they are.

And, um, on the same page for anyone who might have heard of it, but never experienced either of these, I think just starting there with the foundation of what are these practices and then how, how do they blend together so synergistically Sure. So. When we go to school for traditional Chinese medicine, [00:07:00] it’s not just for acupuncture, right?

So we think about TCM or traditional Chinese medicine as an umbrella. And under the umbrella we have different modalities, and acupuncture is just one of those, right? So we have acupuncture and a few other ones are cupping. I’m sure many people have heard of cupping. Um, Chinese herbal therapy. You know, we can diet, we can prescribe Chinese herbs and also gua, which has become a really big buzzword because we, people use it now a lot for the phase, but we’ve been using it for thousands of years for, um, for pain and aches and releasing heat in the body.

Mm-hmm. And so those are some just, uh, acupuncture is just one of the many modalities under the TCM or chin, traditional Chinese medicine umbrella. And so. That it’s just one way that we can treat a patient. Mm-hmm. I think that’s important to start with because [00:08:00] what I was thinking about coming into this is someone can be an acupuncturist and not a TCM doctor, and is it true that it could be the reverse where someone could be a TCM doctor, but maybe not be doing a ton of acupuncture in their practice?

Sure. I I think that, um, the, there there’s something that’s a little bit confusing in the acupuncture world or that could be confusing is that not all states and not all schools mm-hmm. Um, have the same, um, re requirements. So I went to school in California, in San Diego and I think that they have the most, um, defined and rigorous and strict, uh, rules and regulations in the sense of you have to do acupuncture and you also have to be.

A Chinese herbal, uh, herbal medicine, you have to learn all of that. Mm-hmm. In order to graduate and get your license. In California. In Florida you do as well. [00:09:00] Um, but there’s other states, states such as I, I think in Jersey and New York where you can just be an acupuncturist. Mm-hmm. And you’re not also an herbalist.

Right. So it depends. So you can also really love herbs and that is your practice and you don’t do acupuncture. Um, and then there’s many acupuncturists that really herbal medicine is very difficult and very complex. And if you don’t get the right formula for the right person, that could be a little bit more.

That could be not, I don’t wanna say dangerous ’cause it’s not dangerous, but that can go a little bit more wrong than mm-hmm. Putting a needle in the wrong acupuncture, uh, point versus mm-hmm. Giving them a wrong formula. Yeah. And some people love the world of, of herbs and formulas and Chinese herbs as well.

Yeah. It depends. I think it’s important to distinguish too, I don’t know if you’re seeing this out in Florida, but here in California, at least, particularly in kind of [00:10:00] SoCal, there started to be these like acupuncture clinics that have popped up. But, and I tried one once ’cause I just was like feeling so unwell.

I was like, acupuncture sounds amazing. I can’t get in with my regular practitioner, so I’ll just pop in. But it was, so, it was like, go in, fill out a form, some random person walks in, you get a 30 minute treatment and then you’re gone. And that was it. And I was like, oh, this, this is something different.

This isn’t. Sitting down with a practitioner having a consultation. This is sort of like a conveyor belt type version of acupuncture. And I just felt it was important for us to distinguish that that’s there, that exists. Maybe that does serve some people, but what you’re offering is much, much more than just a quick come in, you know, we’ll put a couple needles in and send you on your way.

This is like a very, very all encompassing, intimate, prolonged approach. [00:11:00] Sure. You, you think about, um, there, there’s a place for something like that similar to you where you’re like, I just need an acupuncture treatment or, um, I, I need something quick. I don’t have the time. And we, we had some here and I think they’ve shut down.

So, um, I don’t know how popular they are still in SoCal. Um, but there was a pretty big name and. They’ve, they’ve shut down or they’ve shut down a lot of theirs. Um, it, you have to understand what you’re going in for. Something like that can benefit somebody. Mm-hmm. But not everybody. And so I’ve had patients ask me when these, these were open, well, why are you more expensive than that?

And I said, because I serve a different purpose. I said, if that’s what you’re looking for, then that’s what you’re looking for. But that’s not the same of what you’re getting here in my office completely. So a 30 minute acupuncture in my office, some of my [00:12:00] patients only have 30 minutes. But we have an entire treatment plan, a, a whole, uh, customized plan individualized for all of my patients that maybe they’re, and I am seeing them frequently, right?

So I’m seeing them two times a week, maybe three times a week, depending on what is going on. And so sometimes all they need is that 30 minute acupuncture, because they have. Their supplements, their herbs, the other modalities that they’re doing on other times. So it really just, I, I don’t like to poo poo it because I think any exposure for acupuncture within reason is really important because it, it brings it to other people that may have never been open to walking into my clinic.

Mm-hmm. Completely. I, I mean, I, I went and did it and I found it extremely underwhelming because I want that, like, deeper connection. So it was just interesting to see that and I was like, oh, this, this isn’t what I understand. An [00:13:00] acupuncture kind of session to be, this feels a bit like a watered down version of it, but to your point, a time and a place, and there might be people who at the right time, right place that really serves them well.

So, but I did wanna just take a sec to distinguish that. And you also had experience at your, you have an established relationship with your acupuncturist, which is very different than walking into a 30 minute session at a place that doesn’t really know you. And so that’s different for somebody that’s never had acupuncture, it may be a really great place for them to start because they’re confused.

They don’t know, and then they’re like, okay, well I need something more specific to me. Mm-hmm. Completely. Thank you. Okay. I think moving now into infertility, I think a really good place to start from what you see and hear with patients is I’d love to do a little bit of a compare and contrast to the conventional medicine approach to, you know, diagnosing and treating [00:14:00] infertility versus.

What you’ve got going on over here. Sure. And I don’t know exactly how you would call it, if you’d call it a holistic approach, a um, a functional, an alternative approach. I do think it all doesn’t need to be Yeah. Like, it, it can all kind of blend together. But I do think it’s important to do a little bit of a compare and contrast where, you know, in general conventional medicine, here’s the things they’re looking at, here’s the things they’re prescribing, that’s where it begins and ends.

Sure. Um, first and foremost, I like to always start by saying that I do work alongside with many Western medical doctors in the field. Not all of them, because they don’t, not all of them. Appreciate or believe in, for lack of a better word, of what, what I do. Um, but I do believe that, um, what they do serves a purpose and a time and a place completely.

So I have many great relationship professional relationships with different OBGYNs and [00:15:00] reproductive endocrinologists that we can really blend the two. And it’s, it’s a really beautiful, beautiful relationship that we can put our patients in the center and, and help that patient. But, um, for, for patients that maybe are not there yet, they may not need conventional medicine in the sense of, depending on what.

Their specific situation is, or they’re not ready yet to go that route because when, mm-hmm. When you hear of a reproductive endocrinologist or a fertility doctor, immediately people think of IVF. Mm-hmm. And that isn’t always the truth. And a lot of times that’s not the truth. So, um, when my patients come in, I do.

Do my intake form is very long. Mm-hmm. And be, we don’t only ask about what’s going on with their fertility, their, you know, if they’ve had miscarriages or if they have any diagnosis such as PCOS or endometriosis. [00:16:00] We, we do go into that, but we, we have a very thorough, um, intake form that asks a lot about is their body temperature hot or cold?

Do they prefer cold or warm beverages? Because that in the TCM world gives us, um, an opening to what’s actually going on from a traditional Chinese medicine point. So mm-hmm. They come in here and I do ask a lot of questions in the Chinese medicine aspect because I can, that’s how I’ve learned and I can di diagnose in that way.

And with that being said. I also use a lot of Western labs and blood tests as well for sure. Mm-hmm. Because that’s how I can get a look of what’s actually going inside of their body mm-hmm. Or what’s going on inside of their body. And so I, with this combination, I can treat them from A TCM perspective and also from a western of like, to, to make it more, a little bit more relatable to them.

Mm-hmm. Because a lot of my, my patients [00:17:00] that are dealing with infertility are the best researchers. They’re very informed when they’re coming in already. They’re, they know what’s they, they have an idea of what’s going on. They may be frustrated. So I have to be able to relate to them on a language in which they speak and.

Sometimes coming from a TCM perspective, it can be, it can add to stress. If I start telling them they have kidney deficiency, which doesn’t necessarily mean that their kidneys are deficient, but that’s just kind of how we, um, per diagnose and we can treat. Mm-hmm. And so I think that I have to find a way to relate to my patients and also diagnose them from a TCM perspective so I can use a, the correct acupuncture point prescription.

Mm-hmm. If I’m doing herbal medicine, that I know that I’m providing them with the best herbal formula for their specific situation. If we’re doing any other. Modalities that I have in the office, like a, a yoni [00:18:00] steam, which is a vaginal steam, an herbal steam bath for their, you know, in for the vagina that, that the herbal formula is correct for their situation.

Mm-hmm. And if they have, if they, depending on what they are. So I try to become relate, I relate to them, but we also come from like, what is the root cause of going on of, uh, what is going on at the root and how can we figure out how to treat that and get them to their ultimate goal, which is having a successful pregnancy and a baby.

And so, um, so yeah, that’s a little bit of how we go about it. The. The intake form is fairly thorough and it’s, it could be like, well, why are they asking me? Thi this question here. Right? Right. But there’s a reason completely. And I, I think it’s, I love that being able, you know, anyone who’s worked with me or listens to my podcast knows, I think I bring a lot of nuance to where it’s, we’re not trying to demonize anything.

There’s a time and a place for Western medicine. I [00:19:00] even love that you, there’s Western Medicine offers a lot. We’ve invented amazing testing protocols in a lot of ways. And so being able to blend all of that, what I tend to find is conventional medicine just stops at a certain point. And alternative functional holistic medicine goes so much further beyond that in terms of the detective work and.

That root cause process. And so that’s, that’s often what I find and that’s honestly often the practitioners I love to refer to and the guests I love to have on the podcast are the ones who are taking the best of Western medicine and then going so much further beyond that with Sure. Whatever their additional expertise is.

But do you, you know, just so I can kind of even understand, ’cause I’m, I’m not in a relationship, I’m not having kids anytime soon. So this isn’t something that’s kind of intimately personal for me, but there’s something, right. People are coming to you because on some level, conventional medicine isn’t bringing enough [00:20:00] pieces of the puzzle to the table.

And so what does that approach look like in general from what you understand? Is it kind of like, you know, we take labs, we look at your hormones, we, we test the sperm, and if none of that works, we put you on hormone supplementation, just, you know, as broadly as you can, what that kind of conventional absolutely.

Diagnostic approach looks like. So a lot of times the, the conventional medicine or ob g, they, they start at an ob, GYN. They don’t go straight to my patients, don’t go straight to a fertility doctor. And depending on the age, and depending on how long this person is trying, this couple is trying to, uh, get pregnant, they’ll say, well wait six, six months to a year, depending on age and all that.

And then from there they will say, okay, well then we’ll do some testing. Okay, now let’s do, now let’s do temp testing. Not all doctors, but most. Mm-hmm. I’m saying very general. Mm-hmm. ’cause there are some doctors that are more open to proactive. Being proactive. Absolutely. And so then they will [00:21:00] do some testing.

And they will see, oh, everything looks good. It’s unexplained infertility. Or let’s have your, if it’s a heterosexual relationship, and let’s have your male partner also tested and everything looks fine, like keep trying or it’s unexplained infertility. And then maybe they will start to do some type of, um, hormone hormone treatment in the OB GYN office, something like Clomid or Letrozole starting there.

And if that doesn’t work, then they maybe refer them off. So a lot of these patients are coming back, coming to me. Well, some, a lot a, a good amount are coming to me that they’ve unexplained infertility, which is such a frustrating diagnosis. Mm-hmm. Because it, it doesn’t give you anything to work with. And so I like to say, and most of the doctors in which I work with, they, it’s just.

Undiagnosed, right. There has to be a [00:22:00] reason as to why somebody is not getting pregnant. Mm-hmm. Whether it’s male or female, or a combination of the two. Um, there always is a reason. It’s how can we get to that reason and patients wanna know why. Mm-hmm. They are not okay with, well, you’ve unexplained, uh, um, infertility, so now your best bet.

Now we’re gonna start doing, um, iis, which is, um, insemination. Mm-hmm. And then IVF, they wanna know why and how can I fix it, or is there a chance for me to fix it? Do I have to go through because it’s expensive, you know? Right. You, it, it’s more than just the emotional aspect. There’s the financials, the time expensive, it’s EVA invasive and all of that.

And then there’s, there’s doctors that won’t test the male if it’s a heterosexual relationship, uh, that, that won’t test the male counterpart, which to me is like. Mind blowing because it’s now understood that it’s like half female, [00:23:00] half male when it comes to infertility issues. Mm-hmm. And for males, unless there’s zero sperm, um, it’s more addressable.

We can really make some great impacts that are less invasive. Mm-hmm. Um, if we do that. So, so basically it, it depends on each patient’s, um, situation. But yeah, you’re starting at the ob maybe waiting six to 12 months and then possibly getting testing, but it’s like pulling teeth at times. It’s like, I need more than just the basic.

I want a full panel. And then, well, why you don’t need that, that’s not necessary. And then fighting and causing more stress to a situation that’s also already so stressful. I. I wanted to take a second to share about a new product I recently discovered, and you guys know I just love trying new things, but when I get introduced to something I love, I really, really love it and it becomes, [00:24:00] usually it becomes some kind of staple in my routine, and that is exactly what this product has become.

It is the new Jacob protein bar. And I am gonna share a couple of things I love about it most. But what I have to start out by saying is I don’t like protein bars. I think they’re disgusting. Most of them taste gross or are just filled with so many unnecessary or toxic ingredients that it’s not even worth eating.

So I haven’t bought protein bars in years. There’s something I just kind of gave up on, but recently one of the amazing staff at Ascent where my new LO office location is introduced me to the Jacob Bars and their title is The World’s Cleanest Protein Bar. They have 20 grams of grass fed protein, no seed oils, nothing artificial.

Let me just read you the ingredient list for their chocolate version. It’s a [00:25:00] grass fed protein blend, organic tapioca fiber, organic honey, grass fed beef, tallow, organic dates, organic almond butter, organic unsweetened chocolate, organic cacao powder, organic chocolate extract, sea salt. That’s it. And I absolutely love the taste.

They have three different flavors, chocolate, vanilla, that has some chocolate chips in it, and then a berry bar, and I actually love all three of them. And these have quickly become a staple at some point in my day because usually one of my meals in the day is a meal that I need to just have a quick protein bar, maybe have a protein shake.

So these, I now have a box of these in my office at all times for those days when I need, I didn’t get to have breakfast so I can just have a really, really clean, nutritious protein bar. Or same thing, I didn’t get to pack lunch, so I’m gonna have this protein bar. Uh, it has absolutely blown me away with how clean it [00:26:00] is, but also how good they taste.

So check the link in the show notes to learn more about Jacob and try their bars. No, I just love that. And it’s a couple things there. One is when you hear that word unexplained, it can be. Really, there’s a lot of despair that can come with that of, so my body’s just given up on me. And for those who might not be a little more holistically or integrative minded, this thought of like, well, if conventional medicine can’t explain this, it must really be unexplainable.

Yeah. Versus, gosh, how, how, I would love it if doctors could be able to go with the metrics I’ve been trained to test. I can’t explain why this is happening, but there are other people who look at other factors who might be able to give you more insight. I suggest you go to them, but it’s a little, it’s still can be a little bit black and white of, well, we don’t know what this is, so we just don’t know what this is.

Yeah. I, I also think, think it takes a special doctor and a special [00:27:00] human to be able to admit that maybe this is where my scope ends and where can I bring in another scope and who’s that scope of practice. Mm-hmm. I, I, I think that that is, um. It’s a hard thing to do to set aside ego, but when we put the patient in the center and see what they are, you know, the struggles that they’re having, like how can we better serve this patient?

And it maybe it is saying like, sorry, this is, and maybe it’s saying, this is my limit. Let’s see who else we can refer to and figure this out. Mm-hmm. Um, I think there’s a lot of reason for it. One of them is ego. One of them, you know, it could be insurance, it could be financial, it could be, um, this is how they were trained and they don’t know better and Right.

You know, that talks a little bit of about like the system is broken a little bit and a lot of it and needs to be addressed in that [00:28:00] way. And so yes. Yeah. Yes to all of that. I think that that sort of systemic idea of. Conventional medicine is the end all be all. Mm-hmm. And if conventional medicine can’t answer your questions, sorry, this is just unexplainable versus I’d love, you know, I dream of a world where all of us ’cause Right.

I also, to be fair, holistic medicine can sometimes do that too. Where I work with a lot of cancer patients and there’s people in the cancer world who say like, no, there’s never a time and a place, no surgery, no chemo, no radiation. And the reality is sometimes there is a time and a place. So I just love and dream of a world where all parties are able to go, I’m a piece of the puzzle.

Here’s, you know, here’s all the pieces of the puzzle I cover. I don’t cover all the pieces. This western medicine doctor might cover. Some of the pieces I don’t. And so once I’ve done everything I know to do, and if we’re still stuck or there’s still some pieces we’re working on, you might [00:29:00] need to go seek expertise with some other pieces of the puzzle.

And here are my referrals and here are some people that I work with. Mm-hmm. That can do do that. I, I think that what you said is very true of it. I think we’ve lost a lot of nuanced thinking Mm. In our society. And it’s so sad because I think nuanced thinking can bring so much more to, and we’ll discuss patients and clients than not.

Right. I would be foolish to say, well I don’t need ultrasounds or testing for the fallopian or sperm analysis that I can’t do or have pa you know, things like that. That would be foolish of me. Mm-hmm. And I think it works both ways. ’cause there’s a lot of holistic practitioners, like you said, that also do that.

And I think that when we find those other professionals that have, um, I. Open-minded [00:30:00] thinking and nuanced thinking. It, it is the best for our patients and our patients. Even in such a situation like infertility. And in your case, a lot of cancer patients, which I do see a lot of cancer patients that are being treated with chemo and how I can help support them.

That that’s where even though they’re going through something so stressful, that’s where they feel, okay, my, my doctors on all sides are on the same page and that can make me rest a little bit easier rather than difference. Rather than, rather than somebody coming to me and telling me, oh, my OB GYN, which has happened, does not believe in acupuncture, does not believe in any alternatives.

So I’m coming here without him knowing and um, I need you to help me flip my baby. ’cause it’s a breach. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And I was like, that’s, that’s interesting. So why are you going to this doctor if you don’t feel like you can? Right, right. You know? Yeah. But. So, um, yes, I agree to that. Mm-hmm.

Nuance is important on both sides. Yes. [00:31:00] I love it. So with that said, you already started going into this, but I think now pivoting to when a couple comes to you, just what does that process look like in terms of, okay, they’ve come in, here’s what it looks like in terms of the information I wanna collect, the tests I might have them do, and what that journey starts to look like.

Of course, once you get all that information back, everyone’s protocol and, and sort of treatment plan is going to be very custom to them. But I think that’d be a really interesting place to start to even kind of contrast with here’s, here’s how I go beyond what conventional medicine does in terms of testing, intake, information, et cetera.

And why you, ’cause I was listening to one of your other episodes, why you, it’s so important that you work with both partners. Okay. Yeah, that’s, um, there’s a lot. I ideally, my ideal situation is when we have a consultation, I have both parties here immediately. Mm-hmm. On that day, [00:32:00] it doesn’t always work that way.

But more and more apart, more and more couples are coming in together. Um, I, it is absolutely important for both if it is a relationship. ’cause I have patients that are single, um, that are, that are trying to get pregnant and they’re single parents, uh, or they’re alone and they have to go through IVF or whatever that situation is, and that’s a little bit different.

Mm-hmm. But when it comes to couples, it is so important because for multiple reasons. Number one, like I said, infertility is not just a female issue. We have known this. There’s a lot of research out there that shows that it’s, you know, basically half and half or a third male, a third female, and a third, a combination of both.

And so it’s like, I. Trying to cook and having the pot and no stove to cook with, you know, on top because, because we need both of them to work, right? It takes two to tango and on another part is that [00:33:00] having children is a life long investment and a lifelong journey and a partnership. And so coming in together, let’s say the male factor or the female is perfect and we only need to work with one.

But coming in together, I believe. Lays the foundation of that forever relationship, right? Mm. Because this is just the beginning of, people say 18 years, but it’s forever. I have a very close relationship with my parents. I’m very fortunate with that. But this is forever. And so how they show up here and they are invested in this time here together, what, depending on what that looks like and what their treatment plan is, I think helps set the tone of that foundation for the future as well.

Mm-hmm. Because this is just the beginning. This is just conception, right. In that sense. [00:34:00] And so if I’m missing one of the parts of that, it’s always a game of telephone and not clarity, right. Of what’s going on and hearing it from me, you know, it gets mu. It gets confusing and there’s a lot of words and there’s a lot of stuff that is said in this room.

And so when I have them both present here on day one, it’s a much smoother transition. There are a lot of times where I only have one of the parts of the puzzle, and then they have to go home and speak to the other part, and then it’s confusing and then they both have to come back in and they wanna talk.

Not all the time, but a lot. And so I think that besides the fact that fertility is not just a female issue, there’s more to it than that. Mm-hmm. Showing up for each other. Yeah. That partnership that [00:35:00] you’re establishing and expressing and embodying from the get go. Absolutely. In terms of raising a child together.

Yeah. Yeah. I have, I have a room in my office. I have multiple rooms and I have a room that has curtains. And when I treat couples, as long as they’re coming together and they’d like to, they’re in the room together. And so unless they fall asleep, which a lot of times they do, but there’s a lot of times where it’s just like a, when do we get an hour or 45 minutes of uninterrupt uninterrupted time?

And I have patients that come to me, they’re like, this is better than couples therapy, because they have time to sit and talk and, and like discuss things. And, um, they both are showing up. And that’s a really beautiful thing. Yeah, completely the connection, the depth of emotional connection Absolutely.

That comes from doing that together completely aside from just the logistical reasons of why it might be easier to do it that way. Completely. Yes. Yes. So what does that look like, and maybe even, what is your ideal. I imagine [00:36:00] most people coming to you have maybe been on an a journey with infertility and then are kind of coming to you at some point in that.

But I would say too, what, what is your ideal, even for someone who is just thinking of conceiving for the first time of when they would come in? Sure. So I think you also asked me, which I didn’t answer, is like, what does that look like when they come in? Yes. And I’ll, I could talk about it both with, um, if they’ve been in it or not in it, it looks very similar.

We, I hear, I listen to them like, where are you on your journey? Because I have many patients that I have, uh, patients that are, uh, all different timelines of their journey, that they’ve been in it for five years, or they are just starting, or they’re thinking about it and how, and they maybe know that they have issues or maybe PCOS or, or something that may give them some challenges.

Um, and so when we sit in here, I listen to where they are in their journey. I hear them, I ask some questions. ’cause remember I [00:37:00] have an intake that they’ve filled out, and if they’ve had blood work or testing done, or semen analysis, depending, you know what’s going on, I ask them to bring that in. Mm-hmm. So I can see it, or I ask them to send it to me before so I can see what’s going on.

And from there, I’m, I have a, the greater picture of what is actually going on. I also like to hear how they speak with one another or about each other in, in the room, because that tells me, uh, my, my consultations are more than just hearing what they’re saying. It’s how they’re saying it. Um, what’s their demeanor when they’re saying it?

Are they frustrated? Are they excited? But more than just words, right? Because we, we can tell a lot about somebody more on their body language, how they communicate with one another and things like that. And from there, I set. A treatment plan for my patients. So what does that look [00:38:00] like? Mm-hmm. Are these people, are, are these patients already involved with a reproductive endocrinologist and they’re getting ready to start, um, IVF or IUI and so I meet them where they are also, because I never mm-hmm.

Unless I see like a major red flag, I want them to feel trust in me. So if they feel trust in another doctor, and I know this doctor and all that, I, I say, okay, let’s start here. And then, um, I meet with them where they are. I don’t ever wanna be an added source of stress or anxiety because we know that that truly impacts infertility as well.

And so from there we set up a, a, a, a treatment plan. How many days a week am I seeing you? How long should we start off? ’cause sometimes I see my patients for. A year or two years, I have patients that have been with me, um, at different parts of their journeys in different times from multiple years, or patients that have had children and now are coming back and are in a different situation.

Mm-hmm. Uh, so it really depends on the [00:39:00] patients. And from there we have a plan, at least a three month plan to start with typically. And mm-hmm. We go from there. I I wanna ask a question, ’cause you said something about red flags, but then I, I wanna get into some of, in the analysis that you are doing, what are some of those kind of deeper root causes you’re seeing are common for a lot of people?

But you said that, and I think the audience is gonna be like, oh, what does she mean by red flags? Because Yes, with doctors. Yeah. Like one of the other, in one of your episodes I was listening to you were saying, I do, I work with people in all different stages of this. Some people don’t wanna do any IVF or intervention in that way.

So we’re working to get pregnant naturally. Some people are already committed to IVF. So it’s how can we do things to make that as successful as possible? And again, I love the nuance, but you were saying something where it’s like, I, I tend to let them go whatever path they want to, unless I see a red flag.

What, what might that be? Sure. So as much as I [00:40:00] love working alongside with, um, medical doctors, there are some. I’m sure this happens in all states, but there are some that I’ve come across, especially here, that when I hear their name, you know, something go, goes off. And so I have to tread lightly because this patient may already have an established relationship with them.

And if I come in hot, you know, oh no, you may not go to them. Or then, then, then that is like, do I trust her? Do I trust it? You right. What do I do? And it causes confusion. Um, with that being said, I will tread very lightly and I will, depending on where they are in their journey, um, respectfully, I, I would ask them something.

Um, and I’ll get into what some of those red flags may look like. Mm-hmm. So if people have ever experienced them, that maybe the doctor that they’re working with or acupuncturist or alternative medicine doctor, um, may not be the right fit for them. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:41:00] and so, Hey, have you gotten a second opinion?

It’s always important, making sure that. We make sure that the, this relationship partnership with another doctor is the right one. There’s a lot of time invested. It’s a lot of money. There’s a lot of, a lot that is going on and wanna make sure that you want to do this with this doctor and this facility.

Um, so one of my favorite reproductive endocrinologists who’ve since retired mm-hmm. Um, he was so wonderful because he would lay out, he was very honest, which sometimes people don’t like because to hear things that may be uncomfortable is a really uncomfortable thing. And, um. Not the easiest, especially when it comes to, um, infertility and wanting to have a child.

He was very honest, but one thing that he said is, this is the equation for you to get pregnant. Mm-hmm. [00:42:00] A plus B plus C plus D equals successful pregnancy with a baby. And in there it was, um, what he did, the testing, um, whether you needed to go through IVF or not. Acupuncture was always there. Nutrition, diet and nutrition lifestyle.

And from there, when we put all of this together, we most likely can get you pregnant, stay pregnant, and have a child. Um, when some, which is a beautiful thing, and not just because he always recommended acupuncture, but because this shows that he is open to that, Hey, I can’t do this by myself, and where else can I use, utilize, um, help and, um, who else can I use in there to help with this patient’s goals?

But some red flags that I would say that always kind of make me, um, wary, kind of wary [00:43:00] or like my ears, like my antennas, you know, like they come out and like, wait, what, what did they say Is, um, if they’re not open and willing to do further testing that has been asked from the patient, they’re not listening to the patient.

And this doctor is, is really what I go, say, what I say goes, sorry, what I say goes and. When the patient is asking for things and they’re not being heard. Mm-hmm. In addition to that, if they’re poo-pooing or they are putting down other professionals, I think that, that, that says a lot about a person regardless of the profession.

And I think that’s a red flag because we can’t do things just by ourselves. Mm-hmm. And for anybody in any profession to, to believe they can is, is sad because I think it puts the, it puts the patient at a [00:44:00] disadvantage. Um, if you feel that you’re. This, this doc, the doctor, not this because they are professionals, but the doctor is not hearing you.

And, um, and you’re constantly like fighting back and forth. Like that’s stressful. You wanna get out of that situation. And I think that it’s important to hear that. I’ve had doc, I’ve had patients that, um, a while ago, they’ve since closed. There was a one office that was lo local to here and it was the only office that was local to our area.

And the doctor was not my favorite. Hmm. I’ve, there was, I’ve seen too many things with patients and other things that when I would hear this name it, I was like, I, I had to tell the patients out, out of, you know, being ethical to them and doing their due di like my due diligence of, of being honest with them, of like.

I think that I would really [00:45:00] encourage you getting a second opinion. I’m happy to give you some names. Mm-hmm. Because this, I, the, this professional, this doctor misdiagnosed patients, they only, they only wanted them to do their route. Um, and I think that’s just not a great doctor. Yeah. So there are definitely red flags that can go off when it comes to working with medical doctors, which I’m sure also when working with acupuncturists or any, any type of professional.

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I lost 2% body fat. But the other markers that I was really excited to track were my inflammation went down significantly. My phase angle went up significantly, which I’m gonna talk about a lot more because I decided I’m [00:47:00] gonna record a short solo episode going super, super in depth into the ProLon fast mimicking program, and more in depth into my results and what some of these measurements mean.

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You work with, you have worked with so many individuals on this journey. I imagine you see themes, you see frequent common denominators of, these are common frequent things that I’m seeing patients come in with that we’re then needing to address. And of course we’re, you know, again, acknowledging everyone is a little bit unique, a little bit bio individual, but I think it’s just helpful to see in your experience, ’cause there’s so many much patterns that you can [00:48:00] start to see when you’ve been in practice for a while, what are some of those common potential root causes or contributors to infertility?

Sure. There’s a lot and there’s, so there, I think that this is a great question because it gives people who listen, uh, an idea of like, Hey, should I start getting tested? So, um, some root causes, I see a lot of, um, thyroid issues which go hand in hand with, um, reproductive reproduction and, um, being able to get pregnant and sustain a pregnancy.

I see a lot of endocrine, um, issues, PCOS, um, things like that. I also see a lot of undiagnosed endometriosis where people are, you know, it takes about seven to 10 years for a woman to be diagnosed with endometriosis and that can really cause a lot of, that can [00:49:00] cause issues with somebody getting pregnant and staying pregnant.

Um. I’m seeing a lot of people who have not. They start, I think our society is starting to conceive, or I, I know our society is try, are starting to conceive at a later age. And they, these patients, whether it’s male or female, are not being tested or being proactive, not to their fault, more so to our society’s fault of not educating.

Mm-hmm. Um, not being tested earlier on to see where their fertile their fertility is and what that looks like for them. And so they’re starting out later and although age is not the only issue and we, I definitely have patients that are 40 plus that conceive and it’s a beautiful thing and they have a totally healthy pregnancy.

Um, there are [00:50:00] people that may have undiagnosed, like I said, at a later age, thyroid issues that. Could cause issues with reproduction and are not being treated. And so then we see low, um, low ovarian reserve, which is not a death wish on fertility, but it can become a, uh, a struggle and um, a challenge to trying to get pregnant.

And so I would, I wish that more people would be educated or more women would be, and men educated to start getting tested at an earlier age, just to give an idea of what their fertility looks like so they have an idea, and if there’s anything that they could or should be doing, they can do it then to prepare them for later.

Um, mm-hmm. I’m, I’m seeing, uh, there’s patients that have. No period because of stress and [00:51:00] dietary restrictions that are losing a period and then they can’t get it back because of stress and lack of diet. Diet meaning that they’re lack of calories, poor diet and working a lot, stressed out a lot in our society, things like that.

I see. And I won’t only say for women, I and males also, um, a lot of lifestyle things that can impact the, our, um, men’s sperm, the motility, their morphology, the amount and things like that that they don’t know about, and it can be addressed or issues with blood flow down there that can impact the, the sperm as well.

What are some of those lifestyle factors? Sure. [00:52:00] For men, Bo? Yeah, both. Both. But if they’re kind of distinct and different for sure. So like kind of differentiating them sleep is, uh, you’re gonna hear everybody say sleep is extremely important. It is. Mm-hmm. Sleep is very, very, very important. So if we don’t, if we don’t have a healthy, um, regimen at night and routine to get us to sleep at an appropriate time and sleeping, um, an adequate amount of hours, seven to eight hours a night and really letting our body reset and rest overnight, that can really impact it.

But, um, as for lifestyle stuff, for sperm is, um. Keeping the phone in the front pocket, tight, tight clothing, having the laptop because a lot of people work remotely now. So like, uh, having the laptop on the lap with the, he, with heating the, um, the, the, the testicles and that [00:53:00] area, um, that can impact it in addition to, um, if people are going into a sauna frequently or taking baths frequently, I would avoid that.

Um, for men more so because it can heat up the testicles and the sperm, which is not a good, is not a good thing. Um, it could actually really negatively impact sperm, um, people that are cyclists. That, that’s what they do very frequently. We may have to, especially if they’re trying to get pregnant, we may have to adjust what that looks like because not only are they wearing very tight clothing, I’m talking about men.

Um, they’re not only are they wearing a lot, like very tight clothing, they’re also sitting and on the bike in that position for long periods of time. Um, also that’s an, that comes to another being sedentary. Um, throughout the day, the. TE testicles should descend an [00:54:00] ascend appropriately depending on temperature.

And when you’re sitting for too long, it heats up and it, it can prevent that and so it can heat up the sperm and can negatively impact that. Hmm. Um, by the way, I love, I love the more details, the better. I think this audience loves that. Okay. Yeah. I I it’s helpful that the specifics, even if they’re uh, yeah.

Kind of funky. They’re, it’s not funky, it’s real. Right. It’s, it’s so real. Yeah. Because I think that this has been so hushed and, and there’s a lot of, um, em like shame around speaking a about, um, fertility and sex and um, body parts. And there’s nothing wrong with that, especially when you’re trying to conceive, we have to talk about this.

Right. Exactly. I, I say to my patients a lot is, we’re gonna be very close here. I, we’re gonna talk a lot about, um, your. Personal situation, and we’re gonna talk about when you should be [00:55:00] optimizing and having more sex. So like, we’re, we’re, that’s, you wanna have a baby. And that’s how, you know, as long as everything works out and they’re able to conceive naturally, like we’re gonna talk about when you’re having sex and optimizing that time, and there’s no shame around that.

And so when it comes to males, especially men, you know, they, there’s been so much about, like, men can have babies, uh, in through their eighties. Like if they’re spread as good, it could, but there is a downfall, like there, there I was studying for my, um, my board. So I’m, I’m board certified in the acupuncture board of, um, Oriental Reproductive Medicine.

So I have to, I had to sit for an exam and you have to take all these classes. And there was, um, this study that had come out, this was a many years ago at this point, but talking about, um, the human men. Humans, male humans, um, their sperm is no good. And, [00:56:00] uh, when it, when they retest it over years, the, the, um, the normal range for everything, like keeps going down.

Okay. And they talk about how, um, dolphins, I know this is gonna sound silly, because they are polygamous, that they have to have the strongest and best sperm because there’s multiple males to one female. And like whoever’s sperm is strongest is going to impregnate that dolphin. Meanwhile, the males, because they’re monogamous, not, uh, this is not to make you guys polygamous, but I’m just saying that the, the, the, the.

Of male, like the normal, the norms of each male mobility, morphology, the concentration keeps cutting lower and lower and it’s in problem. And so, mm-hmm. We can make such an impact with sperm. Um, it rejuvenates every [00:57:00] 60 to 90 days. So what dietary lifestyle changes, supplements, state changes, acupuncture, what else could they be doing to help improve that?

Mm-hmm. And so there’s so much, and there’s so much that can negatively impact the sperm and temperature, heat is one of those. So we talk a lot about not such tight clothing cycling, um, phones in the front pocket, laptops on top of their, you know, laps, um, sitting for long periods of time without giving, uh, you know.

Without getting up and giving your, giving the balls, the, um, a breather, for lack of a better word. Um, yeah, so that’s for male. Um, in, in female, it’s what lifestyle changes can be, can impact their fertility. Um, we talk a lot about diet. I am not about a restrictive diet. I think restriction is the [00:58:00] opposite of what we need.

We need to add more into our diet and making sure that women, we are eating enough calories, enough proteins. Carbohydrates are so important to feed our bodies and with energy and fats as well, to have to make healthy cells and make healthy eggs and make sure our uterine linings thickening the way that it should and that our body is not going into this fight or flight and saying, well, the reproductive system is off because I’m not getting fed.

Um, and so we can, some things that we can’t control is our jobs. Like people have stressful jobs, they have to make money, and so what else can be we, we be doing on the outside, um, to impact the, your fertility, if you can’t change your job and your career? Which I don’t ask my patients to, but that’s where acupuncture comes in.

It helps to reset and, um, reset the nervous system, get out of that fight or flight, go back [00:59:00] more into the parasympathetic and rest and di digest so that your body can do what it’s supposed to do. Um, and so that’s important. That’s where the sleep, the appropriate sleep hygiene at night. So that sets you up so you can have a, a good night’s rest that your hormones are resetting and working the way they should.

And then a big one, which a lot of people, it’s probably the, a big ask is there’s a lot of. Environmental toxins that can impact our endocrine system systems. And so we may not be able to change our outside environment with cars and, you know, buses and trucks and the, the atmosphere. But what can we be doing in our environment to, to change that?

Things that have no parabens and no, uh, that are not, no the phthalates or fragrances because all of those can, [01:00:00] um, in be endocrine and disruptors. And there’s now, when when I started working, when I started practicing, um, there wasn’t as many companies out there. It wasn’t as mainstream where you can get non-toxic products that are affordable.

It was far and few between for. Makeup products, hair products, laundry detergent, um, cleaning supplies. And now there are so many really great companies that you can make the changes and afford to make the changes. Uh, making sure that we’re not using plastics in our house and heating those up and we’re changing it, whether it’s like glass or stainless steel, things that we can really impact our, uh, and, and, and help to support our reproductive system.

So toxic burden was something I wanted to ask about, kind of that impact. Sure. That it’s, it’s real because people are like, well, I just used this and this. But we [01:01:00] have to think about how many times, especially women, you know, put on lotion and, uh, face, face creams, shampoo, conditioners, the deodorant, all of that adds a little bit, adds up because it’s every day and multiple times a day.

Mm-hmm. And so I always recommend my patients is start with the stuff that you use the most. Completely. And when, when you’re running out of something, whether it be laundry detergent, that’s when you can replace it. You don’t have to do everything all at once because that’s stressful, expensive, wasteful.

And now then you could do your research of what works for you. There are so many deodorants on the market. There are so much, there are so many different makeup companies now that do, if, if you wear makeup, sunscreen, moisturizers, lotions, shampoos, conditioners, body wash, so many options that can [01:02:00] be, that you can use a cleaning supplies.

Um, right. Even if you like scented stuff in your house, there are non-toxic versions of those to have, whether it’s a oil diffuser, making sure you’re using the right oil or, um, different things. So it’s so, mm-hmm. Important. Especially if you’re struggling especi as a woman. It, it’s, and it’s something that can, is doable.

Right, right. Completely. And that you can do it over time, but just understanding that actually that kind of toxic bucket can fill up quite quickly when we really think about how many products we’re engaging with Daily, weekly, monthly, yeah. Alcohol, you know, like, uh, people because alcohol is legal, like.

What, what, what does that look like for you? It’s not a, you can have a glass of wine, but are we, what does that look like? Because mm-hmm. It’s, it’s a lot. And people like their alcohol consumption can [01:03:00] add up a lot and that can really impact fertility, both male and female. Um, this could be a controversial topic, but marijuana also, there’s not enough information out there, but the information that we do have, it shows that it can, um, impact sperm quality and also egg quality.

Believe it or not, people still smoke cigarettes or vaping. I actually think vaping, this is my personal opinion, but I think vaping can be worse because you can do it all the time anywhere, and so you end up doing it more. Mm-hmm. And so that can impact egg quality, reproductive, your reproductive system as a female and sperm quality as a male.

So, uh mm-hmm. And it’s just really bad for your health in general. We know that. So why are people still doing it? Um, there, and, and it’s not a bad thing to have a piece of pizza, but like, we have to look at your whole diet. Like, are you eating enough protein? Are you eating enough, period, are you eating enough protein?

Are you eating enough [01:04:00] carbohydrates? Are you getting enough fiber in your diet to, we take for granted. I think some people, not everybody that like our bodies are just supposed to do this, right. We’re just supposed to get pregnant and it’s an easy thing. And yeah, some people it is really easy, but some people need a little bit extra and, and if we’re not feeding it appropriately and giving it the food and the nourishment to be able to do that, it’s a big undertaking to get a period ovulate every month and get pregnant.

It’s a lot of work. Mm-hmm. On your body. Yeah. And we don’t realize that. Right. It’s like, it should be like breathing. Yeah, and I think just that acknowledgement of, I, I can’t, I can’t ever wrap my head around how much has changed in society and how we function just within the last 50 to a hundred years.

And if we think about even just kind of ancestrally, evolutionarily, how our bodies adapt to [01:05:00] change, the fact that so much has changed in what we do in a day, how we move through our days, just within the last 50 years. I mean, it’s wild. And I think we’re starting to see that our systems are kind of.

Breaking down or acting out in all of these different ways because we, in such a short period of time, so much has changed. And I think that’s worth acknowledging where some of that grace comes in is, it’s not my fault, I’ve brought this on myself, but we really do need to acknowledge that the way in which we are living is so far from how we ancestrally lived for thousands of years of, of course, and there’s a beauty because like we, the advancements with some medicine gives opportunity to people that may have not had that opportunity before when it comes to IVF completely and things like that.

And that’s also a beautiful thing. And what we do with it and how we approach it is, is really, can really impact our, we’re talking about [01:06:00] fertility and reproductive, but everything that we do. Right. Where’s, you know, with that, and that’s not to say that, that we have to go back to living how we did a thousand years ago to be able to get pregnant, but just understanding like absolutely, yeah.

This is a primal system that needs certain things. And also there is so much that. Current medicine gives us to be able to, you know, find that equal balance. So absolutely. One last, last question I’d love to ask if we have time and then I’ll wrap it up, is just general tips of, you know, of course when you’re working with patients individually and there are couples, there’s gonna be really specific things.

You know, here’s your acupuncture regimen, here’s some of the herbs I want you to take. Here’s some more testing, but. Just general tips for someone who has been experiencing infertility of that really could apply to most people. I think you said something that was so, seems so random to me in an episode I listened to of your, of like, wear socks, keep your feet warm.

I, I loved little things like that. So just kind of [01:07:00] general tips that support the being for most people. Sure. So in, in Chinese medicine, um, we talk about how our, the soles of our, you know, feet, um, are connected to our uterus and we wanna make sure that it’s a nice and warm environment. So, um, wearing socks around the house or some type of slippers are very important.

Um. That’s so funny that you caught that. That was, it is very random. Right. Um, I love those things. Those things to me are, are so fun and interesting. Yeah. Uh, it’s, it’s, um, is making sure you can, you are following your cycle and understanding your cycle of what phase and what phases are for what of like, you know, the follicular phase.

Um, and eating for that as well is making sure, like I, I think eat people underestimate nutrition in the sense of how much it can do for us because we’re, we come from such a restrictive society and so making sure that you’re [01:08:00] eating, uh, in Chinese medicine, we don’t. We are not an advocate for old foods.

And what does that mean? I, I tell my patients to stay away from excessive salads, smoothies, juices, and add more of the warming, oatmeal, rice, sweet potato, um, cooked vegetables. If you’re gonna have, if you’re going to have a salad, making sure that there’s some warming, um, vegetables in there. Making sure that you’re eating enough protein to support your body through all of the cycles of your, um, like the phases of your cycle, and to listen to your body.

If you are trying to get pregnant and your, your cycles off, or you have any inkling, any inkling, inkling that something’s going on, just like, go get tested, go get tested and ask your doctor. Find a support system around you that can help you. Um, whether it’s friends or people that have gone through this or fertility.

Um. [01:09:00] Fertility groups, but also don’t doctor Google everything because that can send you into a downward spiral. Um, I be like, I said, yes, we’re socks. It’s important. Mm-hmm. Um, even though not everybody thinks so, but in Chinese medicine, we’re very big on that. No ice cold drinks. Wa uh, so room temperature, water.

Um, for the most part, I, right, right. I think that, um, I’m trying to think of what else. Um, I, when it comes to fertility, I think go find a, an acupuncturist that is fertility specialized and start with them there. Try to sleep a little bit more, but if you have children, sometimes it’s hard and I get that.

So you try to make sure that everything else that you’re doing can support your system if you’re [01:10:00] not sleeping well. Um, and how to, to improve that. Um, yeah, I’m sure there’s so many other things, but it’s fun to get many those little tidbits that people can just kind of have in the back of their mind.

But of course, I think, I think I spoke a lot of them, I think I spoke a lot about like when it comes to like sperm quality and women stuff like before as well is, you know, yeah. Movement is important. Blood flow is important so you don’t have to do rigorous exercise. Actually rigorous exercise for someone trying to conceive can be um, can spike cortisol levels too high and it can be stress inducing.

And so it’s important to even just walk walking is very under. Um. Underestimated and it’s so, it’s so great. It’s, it’s important to move and yeah, it’s, it’s important to move and exercise in a, in a healthy way. Yeah, completely. Oh, this was wonderful. Thank you so [01:11:00] much. Again, you know, there’s always, even in my head I’m like, gosh, I could go another hour.

There’s so many other questions I have. But it’s nice to give people that overview and give them a sense. And really more than anything, it’s, it’s just those resources where they can start to go, oh, she mentioned a piece of the puzzle I haven’t thought of yet, or my doctor hasn’t mentioned yet, so let me go do some deeper research there.

And I think that’s really, you know, the hope of what some of these episodes serve is, not that we answer every question they could have, but that we give them, honestly, in some ways. We give them more questions to ask and go seek answers to. I think that’s important. I, I also think that’s, IM, it’s a really, that’s an important thing is people shy away when it comes to speaking to doctors.

And I, I, I always ask my patients, before you meet with this doctor, write your questions down because we, people forget you like black out. I’ve been there Totally. And it’s important. Ask if you’re not sure why they’re suggesting something, um, [01:12:00] most of the doctors that I re refer my patients to will answer that.

Um, but they will, uh, but not all will. And something that I wanna leave with your listeners that is really important is that we get these blood tests and sometimes our a MH or ovarian reserve is, is really low. No one factor, no one factor will determine whether or not you will have a successful pregnancy, be able to get pregnant and have a successful pregnancy.

It you there is multiple factors. And so if something comes back most of the time. I wanna say generally there’s something that can be done or there’s a solution for it and mm-hmm. So a lot of people shy away from getting the appropriate testing because it’s scary. Mm-hmm. And it is scary. It can be [01:13:00] scary and it can feel scary with that.

I mean, from me as a practitioner, I always tell my patients from there we can do something about it. Right. If we don’t know, we don’t know exactly what we can do about it. And so get the testing and encourage your, if it’s, if you have a male partner, like get the testing because we can do something about that.

There typically is a solution and there is somebody that can help. So. Just because you have low A MH does not determine whether or not you could get pregnant or if you have PCOS or endometriosis or your tubes are blocked. There are so many factors, there’s so many amazing solutions that can be done. So get the testing.

Yeah. It’s not a life sentence that if some of the, if something’s come back Yes. There’s so much that can be done to support it. No, there’s so much that can be done. I have tons of stories and examples with patients that these are patients that have, should have never been able to get pregnant or have a baby and they did.[01:14:00]

Mm-hmm. And so I am pleading with that Everybody is, do the appropriate testing and let’s be proactive. You don’t have to do it by yourself. Right. Yeah. And, and then find those practitioners who are like, here’s your testing. It’s not a life sentence. Here’s what we can do to start to reverse or mend or mitigate some of what’s going on completely.

Absolutely. I love it. Well, thank you so much. This has been such a joy. Thank you so much.