THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 228

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:01.548)
Well, Dr. Bouchard, welcome to the show. I’m so excited to have you.

Lori (00:06.473)
Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (00:09.688)
So we always love to start with a little bit of an origin story, a quick intro. I know there’s probably a million things we can share, but give us the condensed version of how did you get to where you were at? Did you, know cancer is a big focus for you. That’s a lot of what we’re going to be talking about today. Did you know you want to go into cancer? If not, how did we get there?

Lori (00:30.778)
Yes, and meeting you for the first time, too, it was… You know, most people do get into cancer research and trying to understand and help other people with cancer because they’ve had a diagnosis themselves. So for me, that was not the case. For me, I always had this understanding that this body had this innate ability to heal, and I was raised from just a young age.

Yeah, so from a young age, anytime that I would get sick, just say it was a sore throat or, you know, I had a cough, anything, my mom raised me to believe that my body had this amazing ability to heal. And so she wouldn’t rush me over to a doctor and she wouldn’t rush me to take pills of anything to suppress symptoms. She would educate me and say,

You know, Lori, your body likely needs a break and for me, I’m like, yes, it’s amazing. I can stay home from school. But she would give me handfuls of supplements and vitamins that help my immune system and help my body heal. So I had that understanding from a very young age. I actually fought it for a while, which is really interesting. I didn’t want to believe my mom thinking she’s a little bit crazy. Like, no, mom, I need to go and get this pill like my friend would do and then to feel better quick, right? So I…

fought against that narrative and thinking like she’s out of her mind, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, like food is medicine, like why is she, you know, giving me a colonic when I have a sore throat? Like this makes no sense. No sense whatsoever. But as you grow up, you realize like, okay, maybe my mom is not all that crazy and more I went into into school learning about anatomy and physiology and biology, I really started to understand the mechanics of the body.

and learning about most of your immune system is in your gut. So of course, what you’re feeding yourself is going to affect how you are fighting infections and fighting disease, especially chronic diseases. So for me, it was a very natural flow to go into medicine and the type of medicine made sense as far as learning about the body. As a naturopath, we wanna look at the root cause, look at why, not just, okay, you have this symptom and let’s try to get rid of that symptom.

So it wasn’t until actually I graduated from naturopathic medical school where I had my first patient with cancer where he was given just a month to live. And it was this grim, horrible diagnosis or prognosis where they said, you know, pack up your affairs. There’s no chance. We’ve done all the chemo that we can do. There’s really nothing left. So as a new grad, like, you know, that should have intimidated the hell out of me. But with my a little bit of delusional

Leigh Ann Lindsey (03:27.469)
Yeah.

Lori (03:55.118)
optimism and like, no, your body can do this. Like this is something that when you give it the right tools, we can figure this out. So that really sparked my investigation to learn, you know, what do people in Europe do with cancer? What do people do in the States? And looking all over it, what do these success stories all have in common? So this one patient was really the, I would say the main reason why I got into cancer care, because he just had this like drive of

You know, you’re kind of my last resort, but I’m willing to do everything you say because I want to live. Like, I want to be here to see my grandchildren and I want to enjoy life and golf again in the spring. He just wanted, you know, six more months. So we had these like small timeframes. And for me, it was just something that I truly believed in him of like, you know, just say that was my dad or that was someone like, what would this person need to do to defy all odds? So…

This patient specifically, he ended up living almost a decade longer than this one month death sentence. So it was really him that changed my whole practice. Like, I had no intention of getting into oncology. It was more so… I love proving… I love proving things wrong. I love understanding why. I love the detective work. I love everything about these… The complexities of these conditions. And when people have that…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (04:59.988)
Wow.

Lori (05:22.194)
will saying, yeah, I’m going to do everything and let’s not believe those stats. Like, let’s not believe that prognosis, right? And that is, I’d say, the most inspiring thing. So he would be the reason why I am diving full in 17 years later as a naturopath still focused.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (05:30.872)
you

Leigh Ann Lindsey (05:38.422)
Wow. Yeah. So what I want to go straight into is a little bit, we’re going to talk about the metabolic approach to cancer that you take. And I’d want to start there broadly of just what does that mean? How is that different from a conventional approach? Even though I do think most of my audience will be pretty well versed in the conventional standard of care, how is a metabolic approach different or an expansion of that? And then we’re going to like really go through it.

Lori (05:47.378)
Okay.

Lori (05:53.95)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:08.237)
piece by piece, but I kind of want to start with that broad place.

Lori (06:10.883)
Hmm. Conventionally, cancer is looked at as more of a genetic disease. So it’s more about, you know, the biopsy shows these are the genetic expressions and these are the targeted drugs that will help you. That’s pretty much it. If you ask an oncologist, hey, which diet should I follow? You know, should I exercise? Should I do breath work? Should I…

meditate, like, the answers that someone will get will be very vague, if any at all. They may just say, like, it doesn’t really matter what you do. And I hear that… I’m sure you hear that all the time. It’s a little bit mind-blowing of, well, it does matter. We know that 90 % of cancers are metabolic in nature, so that means what you eat and your lifestyle, the way you think, is 90 % of that genetic expression.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (06:48.973)
Yeah.

Lori (07:07.653)
So you could be born with this, you know, genetic platter of maybe having a higher risk of developing a cancer, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you will have that cancer in your lifetime. So it’s learning about how we can modify and, you know, play with the conditions that we’re given as a person with this genetic profile and how we can do everything possible to not turn on those oncogenes or those cancer expressions. So the way that…

I look at cancer as a metabolic disease is looking at how is cancer even formed in the first place? And we know it starts with a damaged mitochondria. So that’s like the energy centers of the cell. And the way that you chronically damage a mitochondria is lots of stress, like high cortisol, too much exercise, too little exercise, too many carcinogens, the things that we’re breathing in, the things we’re applying to our body.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (07:47.98)
Okay.

Lori (08:04.281)
all the chemicals, herbicides, glyphosates, all of those are directly carcinogenic and they damage the mitochondria. So you think of years and years, it doesn’t take cancer, you know, that day of, all these cancer genes are now popping on. It usually is an accumulation of years in the making. So looking at it from a metabolic view, we wanna know what are all those things that are damaging your mitochondria and your metabolic health so then we can now create an environment that isn’t promoting

the growth of cancer.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (08:35.604)
Yeah, you know, it’s so interesting. My audience is probably tired of hearing me say this, but I like to remind us that we actually all have cancer cells. There’s an essence of that that’s a bit normal. Cells develop, but our body is inherently designed to then fight them off and not allow them to take root. So we’re not asking the question, why did you get cancer? We’re asking the question, why was it able to thrive?

Lori (08:54.736)
Yeah.

Lori (09:02.577)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (09:03.362)
And I think we could do that in smaller ways too, right? It’s not, why did you get parasites? On some level, parasites were gonna get exposed, but what’s allowing them to really proliferate and become a big, big issue?

Lori (09:10.203)
Yeah.

Lori (09:16.453)
Yes, and that is such a good point because there’s bacteria, viruses that you’re more likely to develop a cancer. So with Epstein-Barr virus, for example, increases your chances of getting lymphomas. But does that mean that everybody with Epstein-Barr is going to get a lymphoma? No, but it does increase the chance if you tie that along with, you

the glyphosates and the high stress and poor diet and all the inflammatory conditions. It is that perfect storm of events. So yes, we all do have cancer. We really do. And actually there are studies showing where men over the age of 80 was saying that 100 % of them have prostate cancer. 100%. So you think about, you know, what…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:01.908)
Wow. my gosh.

Lori (10:04.689)
What are we fighting here? You know, what are we fighting here? Is this just a natural process that the body goes through? And with age, you know, you have cancer that’s developed, but, you know, it’s up to your immune system and your body to recognize this. And some people do get that expression earlier in life, whereas by the time you hit 100, you maybe have something that’s been lying dormant for years. So yes, I think the treatment for cancer is actually worse than the actual cancer itself at times.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:30.74)
Yeah, what it’s doing in the body. So walk us through and I’m, I, again, I like to kind of start big picture and then we go through it piece by piece. When someone comes to you with cancer and maybe it’s different if it’s like stage one, stage two versus stage three, stage four, what does this look like? Is there a standardized intake process we’re doing with them?

Lori (10:51.889)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (10:52.83)
And then, there phases we’re moving through? Give me kind of big picture what that is looking like for you. And then I’d like to go into each of those parts a little bit more.

Lori (11:01.487)
Yeah, and so I’ve actually over the years changed my screening process because I used to, know, when I first graduated, I want to see everybody and even the people that didn’t even want to be there. Like I knew they didn’t want to be there. It was more like their family or their wife sitting there just like arms crossed and be like, yeah, I was told that I have to be here kind of thing. So but I would take everyone on. I’m like, you know why? There’s something I can do to help improve your life. And there’s something.

But now my screening process is my time is really dedicated to the people who are, yeah, I want to learn why this happened and I’m fully invested into making these changes. So it’s no longer like the person that’s like, hey, can you give me these pills? And I just want this to go away. You know, I want the person who’s really understanding that like, hey, your body created this. How can we find the detective work and understand what…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (11:46.124)
Yeah.

Lori (11:55.693)
what went wrong, like what went array, and really put in the work to try to change what is going on. So now I am screening people where it’s like more of that mindset, right? As long as someone’s like, yeah, I want to know, then like, yes, so do I. Like, let’s go for it. So that’s number one is that mindset piece of just like believing your body can heal, right? Like if you’re someone that’s like, no, I’m doomed, there’s nothing I can do.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:03.289)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:12.959)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:21.134)
Yeah.

Lori (12:24.976)
My doctor said I’m going to go, like I… No matter what I change, it’s not going to work anyways. I do believe, like, we probably won’t make much of an impact, right? Like, if your… If your mindset is like that and you don’t have that faith that your body can change, I have a really hard time changing that mindset. I just don’t have that superpower yet. Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (12:44.131)
Totally. I don’t know that’s where we serve people best. It’s funny because I have the exact same philosophy in my, I’m not trying to convince anyone they need this work. I’m here to let people know what I do and how I support. And then the people who are like, that’s it. That’s what I’ve been looking for. I’m here for you. But that aligned, that alignment between patient and practitioner, know, client and practitioner is foundational.

Lori (12:54.938)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lori (13:05.433)
Exactly.

Okay.

Lori (13:13.516)
Yeah, no, that’s huge. And so as soon as someone’s like, yes, I’m invested, I want to, you know, really dive into all the things and learning about my body and how, it expressed this disease in the first place, the next step would be understanding the data. So really getting a full intake of their genetics. So not just the tumor genetics, but their genetics that they got from their mom and dad and to see how do they detox, you know, which

foods do they process the best from a genetic standpoint? Looking at how they deal with inflammation, what kind of workouts should they do genetically, right? And we know that we can always change that expression so it’s not like it’s set, but we want to know kind of like what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses, and then looking at that with a metabolic set of labs. So that means over 30 different blood markers to say where are you right now? Like what does your blood work look like? Let’s look at…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (13:51.183)
and

Lori (14:08.944)
how you’re dealing with sugar based on what your diet looks like, how are you metabolizing that? It’s looking at over 100 markers really, I would say even over 200 things that say like in this moment right now, what does your health look like on a cellular level? So that is really key because most people, it’s actually insane how many people feel healthy despite having this cancer diagnosis, right?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (14:34.423)
Yes, totally. You know, I just interviewed another cancer doctor from Arizona. She, Dr. Shukla from Vincier Cancer Center. And she was like, probably 90 to 95 % of the patients that come in for screening have zero symptoms.

Lori (14:51.78)
Yeah, zero, zero. Or it would be something so vague. Like even just I had a patient the other day who said with colon cancer, he had no rectal bleeding, no, just like some bloating. Something as simple as bloating. I’m like, wow, that’s kind of scary. So for the average person listening who doesn’t have a cancer diagnosis, it’s like having those yearly checkups at least just to look at a broad spectrum of tumor markers, look at inflammatory markers, really screen

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:04.813)
Yeah.

Lori (15:21.134)
because you can’t discriminate thinking like, okay, I’m not the age that, like yourself, right? To think like, there’s no way there could be cancer at this age. Or even like kind of stereotyping it with, I don’t smoke, I don’t drink that much, those kinds of things. So yeah, having a proper screening is so important. But if someone comes to me with a cancer diagnosis, there’s different metabolic labs that we can look at various growth factors to understand what is stimulating their specific cancer type.

So that’s really key to understand, because I feel like it’s an overwhelming field of cancer that they could, a lot of people just see what’s online and they’ll look at influencers and they’ll research and they’re like, I should be doing all of these hundred things. Like this has been told in research, right? But we want to piece it together saying, well, for you, for your genetics, the way that your blood work looks, is that the best thing? Or let’s pick the top five things.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (15:51.567)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (16:06.698)
Right.

Lori (16:18.01)
that are gonna be the best for you. So personalizing that is something I don’t think even conventional medicine has the time to do. It’s very much this condition, this is what you do, right? So as a naturopath, is the main way, that’s extremely important.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (16:26.167)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (16:34.901)
Yeah, well, first of all, conventional medicine, there’s kind of the four things, right? And there might be some variation of those four, but it’s surgery, chemo, radiation, immunotherapy, basically. And that’s it. But none of that is really looking at any of these metabolic factors. But to your point, and I hear this from my clients all the time, it’s sometimes that overwhelm of, I don’t know who to listen to. This cancer doctor says,

Lori (16:46.82)
Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:04.183)
an all juice diet is what we need to do. And then this cancer doctor swears by keto. And then this one says it’s the carnivore diet. How can they, but what we have to do is come back into that bio individuality. But I love what you’re saying because it’s not just guesswork. It’s not just like, well, you’ve let’s try this diet for three months. And then this one it’s, we’re going to look at all these genetic markers, blood markers to be able to give the most refined protocol possible.

Lori (17:05.38)
Thank you.

Lori (17:13.647)
Yeah.

Lori (17:21.061)
Thank

Lori (17:30.5)
Yeah, exactly. And I think everybody has that one person where they’re like, they started ivermectin and now they’re cancer free. Should I be on ivermectin? Right. Or fendendazole or all these other things that they’re hearing about. And like you said, like

Leigh Ann Lindsey (17:40.387)
Totally.

Lori (17:47.12)
Green juicing, celery juice is going to cure me. So yeah, it’s taking that into what your labs say, and maybe it is something that would be great, but maybe not right now, or maybe it’s something that actually could have more harm than good. yes, personalizing, and I actually love how now people come with such informed questions for me, whereas even in my practice 17 years ago, there was no questions like that. It was just kind of like, what should I do? What do I do?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:16.397)
Yeah, yeah.

Lori (18:16.459)
But now people are asking like, should we look at the proliferation rate and my subtype of cancer? And I was like, yes, we should. That is so fantastic that you even are speaking that language and you’re invested and wanting to understand. So yeah, it’s totally changed, which I love the understanding. However, I could see that just being very overwhelming for someone where they’re bombarded with information and how to even navigate that. So that’s where I…

really hone in, myself and my team, we really focus on, okay, what is actually the best for you, not necessarily your cancer type, or your cancer type and you, mostly you.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (18:53.505)
Yeah. Yes. Are there other specialized tests you’re doing? So a lot of that is the blood work, what’s off in the body. Then when it comes into that investigation of, now what’s causing this? What is contributing to why there’s chronic systemic inflammation and there’s this mitochondrial damage and you your hormones are at low functioning or whatever it might be.

Lori (19:08.206)
Yeah.

Lori (19:18.016)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (19:19.567)
What do some of those tests look like? And having been through this a little bit myself, what I want to get a sense of is, do you start right off with just a broad, broad swoop of the biggest things I think of right are what are the pollutants? What are the pathogens? I know there’s so many categories within that. And then in my world, I’m asking what are the past experiences? So the three P’s that are unmedabolized. But I think what I want to get a sense of is for you.

Lori (19:33.8)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lori (19:44.11)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (19:47.661)
I think you already know on some level there are contributing factors. We’re getting a look at what’s imbalanced, but now we need to understand what’s causing that. Do you do just like one foul swoop of testing or are you kind of like, let’s start here, see what’s up, then go there.

Lori (19:51.534)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (20:02.936)
Mm-hmm, yeah, and that depends. mean, there’s so much that you could clean up and change in the body without spending thousands of dollars on testing, right? So even a week, what we do at Inside Health in my clinic is we do this healing, a deep healing program where people spend five days of getting into therapeutic ketosis. They’re doing colonics every day. They’re taking these detox drinks. Like it’s all personalized to what they need, but it’s…

the most thorough way to clean someone up. If we, well, we do blood work on day one and then we do blood work again on the last day and it’s, you know, it’s a totally different person. So we’ve now actually stopped doing so many labs that can be a lot of money because we think, you know, there’s certain things just to maybe even create this type of experience for someone to make sure it’s safe and to do all the things, but.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (20:41.655)
Yeah.

Lori (20:55.171)
The amount of inflammatory markers that go down, liver enzymes go down, ketones go up, just by throwing someone into a fasting mimicking plan, right? Or doing colon hydrotherapy or eating anti-inflammatory diet. Like there’s so many things that within three days, your entire gut microbiome can express differently. So I don’t love like jumping the gun and saying like, here, let’s test all these things until you know, the basics are cleaned up. Like if someone had a really

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:00.782)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:20.364)
Yeah.

Lori (21:24.399)
crappy diet and then change their diet, yes, their blood work will look very different in even a week. So that’s the exciting thing for people to hear as well, right? That it’s like, okay, I can make these changes and my cells are constantly in turnover state, which I can actually be a whole new person in a year from now if given the right tool. that’s baseline. But then with cancer, I do like to investigate even deeper of what kind of latent infections could be causing the immune system to go

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:33.718)
Yeah.

Lori (21:54.636)
array, right? Because if the immune system doesn’t know what to attack, doesn’t know what’s normal, is kind of like the immune system sleeping, right? And it’s not seeing, it’s not, natural killer cells aren’t being activated, then yes, the cancer is almost, it’s able to go undetected. And so I want to know why, and that is a company that I go through in Europe that can look at viral load, can look at parasites, can look at bacteria.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (21:56.035)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (22:04.494)
Yeah.

Lori (22:20.121)
So all of the infections that can throw your immune system off. So I do think that’s really, really important for more of like, you know, something that they may be picked up when they’re five years old. Like we don’t, you don’t know.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (22:31.327)
Yeah. Yeah. And is that just a blood test?

Lori (22:34.627)
Sublet test, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (22:36.399)
Okay. That we’re then sending out. Can we go back to just for a second? Cause you said, so you have this, I can’t remember what you called it, like a week long kind of reset, maybe initiatory reset that we’re doing with everyone after they go through that, then that’s maybe when we’re going into even deeper testing. But I want to start with this because that’s really interesting to me that you’re having everyone now. And I know you’re saying it is customized.

Lori (22:44.877)
Yeah.

Okay.

Lori (22:55.651)
Exactly.

Lori (23:02.371)
Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (23:02.829)
There’s the general five day protocol that’s still customized to the individual, but can you talk a little bit more of what what’s happening in those five days? And then after those five days, how do you decide what’s the next step for each patient?

Lori (23:16.001)
Yeah, so it’s interesting how much this five day process has evolved in time. So when I first graduated medical school, I had this patient who had just horrible migraines. He’s been to all of the different neurosurgeons, had all these specialist appointments to understand why is he getting these migraines. CT scans were clear. All the imaging could not understand why he was getting this.

And so with him, he was the first, I don’t want to say guinea pig, but he was the first person who I’m like, let’s clean your system up on the deepest way possible. Like let’s have this healing system that you’re really invested. So I had him do colon hydrotherapy every single day for those five days. He did not love that process, like one bit. He’s like, wow, I must be desperate.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (24:02.031)
I don’t know that anyone’s like, ooh, I’m so excited. Actually, that’s not true. We probably have a of cool holistic health people who are like, I can’t wait for my colonic.

Lori (24:09.742)
Yeah, the ones who taking pictures, they’re like, look what’s coming out. Right? Because what comes out on day five or day one versus day two, three and five, drastically different, especially if you’re combining this with a fasting protocol with binders and things that really help on a deep cellular level. And so, yeah, what comes out of the system is quite different. You’ll see kind of this like tarry looking like mucoid plaques that are just full of

Leigh Ann Lindsey (24:27.171)
Totally.

Lori (24:39.086)
parasites and debris, things that the body should not be holding onto. So yes, it’s very exciting. But so for him, he like went full throttle into this process. And it’s not to say like, okay, five days, you’re gonna be cured. But you better believe like after five days, what we do next, he has such a cleaner system to work with. So this was a patient that I saw literally 17 years ago, and he still now messages me and he’s just like, I am in the.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (24:40.74)
Yeah.

Lori (25:07.438)
best shape of my life still. Thank you so much.” He’s like those arrogant doctors who, you know, they said there’s nothing else I could do and I just have to take these gabapentin and these five drugs for rest of my life. And so he’s so grateful because he was on critical leave from work. Like, he was on his bed, you know, like he could not get out of bed because these migraines were so debilitating. So I find, you know, when someone is in that type of state, to tell someone like…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:24.259)
Yeah.

Lori (25:34.55)
okay, you need to start juicing, you need to start doing coffee enemas, or you need to, you know, they’re just so tired and depleted, and you really need that kickstart to get the body moving. So for him, that’s exactly, well, him and many others since then, it’s what really, it drastically put down the inflammatory markers, helped him essentially get his life back. So anything that we did after that, it was, didn’t have to be so intense, but he needed those five days just to…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (25:42.755)
Yeah.

Lori (26:04.152)
kickstart and give that inertia to his healing process.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:08.075)
Yeah, and so is the five days primarily the fasting or the fast mimicking diet and then the colonics or are there supplements, maybe IVs, anything else kind of worked other modalities? Okay.

Lori (26:18.644)
All of it. I’m like, all of it, all of it. Yeah, we really, we treat it, your body, as if this is your full-time job. And that’s the problem. People with a chronic health issue, they have, you know, they’re usually CEO, you know, burnt out. They neglected their body for decades, right? And it took a chronic disease for them to say, okay, wow, I can’t wake up and do the things that I love to do. Now I have to focus on me.

What is my body trying to tell me, right? And so we do treat this in clinic experience as a full-time job. Like what would we do to get you in the best shape of your life? Like get you ready for the Olympics. Like let’s get you all the things. We need the best lymphatic system. You know, we need the strongest immune system. So maybe that would be with IV therapies. Maybe that’d be hyperthermia. We always combine lymphatic treatments for everybody multiple times in the day.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (26:59.789)
Yeah.

Lori (27:15.038)
mindset support, all of it. So mistletoe therapies, like I could go on, we really have like over 30 things that we’re like, okay, is this right for them? Is this not? And then going at a pace where they’re not just gonna like do all these therapies and be so overwhelmed. So we have to navigate that as well.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:18.415)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:29.347)
Yeah

Leigh Ann Lindsey (27:33.123)
So this is what I really want to understand too, because what I will say is, when I went to the integrative cancer center, I went to, they threw me on so many detox modalities. It kind of felt like it blew up my system. My entire back had cystic acne. That was there for months and months and months. And their philosophy was sort of like,

Lori (27:45.344)
and

Thank you.

Lori (27:56.3)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:00.675)
The more the merrier, the better. Not a lot of great pacing. So I learned a lot. And now, and especially working with so many patients myself, I see sometimes that too much, too fast, too soon can slow us down a little bit. And so they’re coming in for these five days. But how do you get a sense of here’s how much they can tolerate?

Lori (28:01.802)
Yes.

Lori (28:15.95)
Yes.

Lori (28:25.384)
Yes, such a good question because yes, many people are sensitive and I have seen that where someone comes back from like a six week, you know, experience with the clinic and it was so intense and they were just throwing everything at them and their lab work looked really bad when they came back. their body did not look well. And so what we do, especially in the cancering, when someone has an active cancer, we want to look to see how stressed out their system is.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (28:44.193)
Yeah.

Lori (28:55.298)
So if they have high oxidative stress markers and they’re extremely inflamed, the last thing that we wanna do is throw more oxidative stress therapies at them, right? So high dose vitamin C is an incredible treatment for cancer and for the immune system, but it’s still an oxidizing therapy, right? And so if someone has just done chemo and their inflammatory markers are through the roof,

Leigh Ann Lindsey (29:06.71)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (29:15.939)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (29:22.178)
then the last thing that they need is more oxidative stress being pushed at them. So we do change what their IVs would look like and how we nourish their bodies so that one week may be completely blood marrow supporting or nourishing IVs and doing things that just like more, instead of coffee enemas maybe, it would be more nutritive enemas with probiotics or prebiotics.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (29:47.314)
Yeah.

Lori (29:48.152)
So that’s where the personalization comes from because you’re right, you could, if you throw the same five days to various people, you could really harm them and they would feel horrible afterwards. So before they come into the clinic, we need to get a whole rundown of what their blood work looks like. And so then we can accommodate and personalize it and make it more of a nourishing and anti-inflammatory still, like there’s still foundational pieces of how they’re eating and.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:00.452)
Hmm.

Lori (30:15.309)
You know, I do believe everybody should be having some extent of fasting. Doesn’t mean, you know, five days of fasting, but whether it’s like 12 hours at night, like there’s something that’s, you know, to give your body a break, let your digestive system heal and your immune system go into autophagy, all those things. And so the standard, I would say philosophy is always the same with everyone and the process. However, yes, how they…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:22.84)
Yeah.

Lori (30:40.861)
which therapy specifically did they do and which ingredients they do in what order. And then some people, actually space it out over three weeks. So we say, you know what? Yeah, like if it’s, you know, someone who knows like, yeah, if I do this, my body’s like you said, it’s gonna blow up. I know…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:50.242)
Okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (30:57.667)
Totally, yeah, maybe dealing with you know, mass cell, major mass cell activation and just nervous system is absolutely haywire. We’ve got to really ease them into it.

Lori (31:08.927)
Exactly, and you know what’s interesting about that too is people with mast cell activation syndrome, when they fast, it’s that first 24 hours where histamine is the highest. And so we know that, and so there’s certain things that we would do to support that process. It doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t fast at all, but yeah, that can scare someone away thinking like how can we support the body and your immune system knowing you’re super sensitive and how can we go at a pace where it’s gentle and you’re not gonna be.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (31:26.209)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (31:37.567)
in pain or just be turned off from the process. yes, going at a pace that’s personalized is really important.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (31:45.07)
Yeah. And I think something worth mentioning is what I would see a lot, with patients, cause I was contracting with that cancer center for a while as a practitioner now coming back and working with patients. And there’s, there’s almost a, what’s the word for it? Like cancer treatment’s supposed to hurt. It’s supposed to be hard.

And so when some patients, think we’re on protocols that were actually just way too much for their system. I think there were parts of their psyche that are like, well, this, is just what it is. This is how it has to be. I’m supposed to be in all this pain and so fatigued. And I think on some level doctors were even kind of fostering that mindset too. So it’s a fine line. We have to know the balance because detox on any level can be a little bit uncomfortable.

Lori (32:14.453)
Bye.

Lori (32:34.431)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (32:35.177)
And there can be fatigue and there can be a little bit of like, Herc’s reactions that come, but there’s a difference between the right kind of tension that then leads to growth and then too much tension that actually just causes the system to crash even more.

Lori (32:41.335)
Yeah.

Lori (32:50.857)
Exactly, exactly. And it’s like when to push through or when to, you know, and I, even with the Herc’s reactions that you’re mentioning, it’s, there’s certain strategies that you can do. So as your body’s transitioning from being a sugar burner and loving carbs to becoming more of a ketone, you know, using those ketones for energy, there is that really

not fun transition, but there are things that people can do to make the transition easier. And so things like electrolytes and, you know, things for your liver and bile acids. you know, that, yeah, it brings up a really good point of like having that communication with the practitioner and saying like, hey, this is what I’m feeling. I don’t, if it’s going on for a long, like, hey, what else could I do? And just for them to be more self-aware, because no, I don’t think anyone should be.

in pain and suffering. I really don’t think that should be part of the process one bit. I think mentally that would just destroy you. And why would someone want to live like that? Like, especially if it’s over, you know, weeks and months thinking this is what they need to do. Like, yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (33:54.092)
Yeah

Yeah. Okay. So we’re coming in, we’re doing, know, first of all, we’re doing just initial blood work to get a sense of where is their system at? Once we’ve got that, we’re creating this personalized five day, maybe longer protocol to clean things up. Then we’re going into more specific testing. It sounds like to look at those pathogens, pollutants, deficiencies, et cetera.

Lori (34:04.045)
I

Lori (34:11.512)
Yeah.

Lori (34:21.961)
Exactly. And so once they have a cleaner system too, you can start to navigate of, just say they did have parasites. You what specific protocol should they be on to get rid of that type of parasite, right? Or if they do have long-standing bacterial issues or if their immune system isn’t activating. So you have to, yeah, look at revamp once their system is cleaner to say, okay, what should the next month or even three months look like? And I like working in baby steps, right? Because if you tell someone,

yeah, you have to eat like this for the rest of your life. They’re thinking, well, that sucks. But if we say, let’s, you know, this is the plan for the next month, let’s retest your labs in a month, see what’s changed. And that can be so empowering where they can be like, wow, I can, you know, all these markers can improve. And so that’s motivating too for them to continue, because it should be about health the entire time, right? Like it should always be, how can I get my immune system stronger? How can I…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (34:56.014)
Yeah.

Lori (35:19.915)
build energy, how can I be the strongest, most balanced person of myself, right? Versus how can I just be cancer free, which is obviously very important, but the focus is very much on health.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (35:30.913)
Right. Yeah, OK, I really I want to go back to the five days really quickly. What I like about this, though, is the reality is if the foundations of health aren’t there, we’re going to need to bring those in at some point anyway. So it’s like.

Let’s not do, I love this philosophy of let’s not do the deep, deep assessment until we’re on a better diet, until the inflammation has come down a bit, until our sleep is a little more optimized because we’re going to need to change those things anyways. And when we change those things, a lot of things might shift in the body just with those small, simple foundational shifts.

Lori (35:54.828)
Yeah.

Lori (35:59.724)
Yeah.

Lori (36:11.053)
100%. And this is actually where this system stemmed from, is where I, as an Agipath, would see people come in with, I don’t want to say, you know, 50, maybe 50 supplements. You know, they have this long list of expensive and time-consuming list of things that they need to take, yet they were never told that they need to drink more water or how important it to poop every day or how they need to be sweating every single day. And…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (36:37.303)
Yeah.

Lori (36:40.279)
you know, getting your lymph moving. So it is really this immersive experience. I would say more so for the education, too, because it’s virtually impossible for a doctor to spend that much time talking about all the things. Like, sometimes it is easier just being like, hey, biggest bang for the buck. Yeah, like, this is what you need to take, you know, but to educate all of them in a half hour, in an hour, just say once a week or whatever that looks like is really challenging. And this is like decades in the making. So that’s a…

massive component. So thank you for bringing that up because we emphasize on learning like what how to test your own glucose, how to test, you know, which foods are spiking that or not. How long should you be fasting for? Is it actually working against you if you’re fasting longer than 16 hours? Like these are all measurements that we need to understand about our body and then even what our ketone levels are, right? So we go through this entire process with them so they can

take away after the week and implement these things. More importantly, know the whys. Like they need to understand why and you know, for any lasting change, that’s so important, not just, okay, I was told I have to do this. Like they want you, you want to say this is connected to the blood work shifting like this and your energy will go up if you have higher ketones, right? Like it’s, it is just making sense of this wild world that we live in about health. So that is a massive goal for us.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:01.951)
Yeah, completely. I want to ask this question, which is in all of the then deeper tests that you’re doing, are there any recurring patterns that you’re seeing? Like, because there’s so many things that there could be there. There could be viral infections, bacterial heavy metals, know, pollutants like the Xenoestrogens and parasites and mold. And then there’s kind of like the hormonal all of that there. But is there anything you’re seeing where it’s like, ooh,

Lori (38:20.96)
Okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (38:30.231)
I see all of it, but I see a lot of mold toxicity or something like that.

Lori (38:34.439)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and so this is something that I was actually surprised with when I, the first few years of practice, I would just assume, you know, if someone lived in Florida or California, you know, there’s no way they could be low in vitamin D. But that, I would say 100 % of the people that were coming in with the cancer diagnosis, now I feel like people are supplementing more and more proactive, but…

then it was 100 % of the people with an active cancer diagnosis had extremely low vitamin D. So if I want the marker to be around 200, their levels were under 50, right? Where it was just, and we know there’s a direct correlation there. The lower your vitamin D level is, the higher your risk of all cancer types. So not even to say like, hey, you’re gonna, like, this is actually drastically increasing your chance for your immune system to even.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (39:11.842)
wow, yeah.

Lori (39:26.044)
So that I would say is number one. The next one would be mold. So like you said, like mycotoxins and even people who don’t think that they live in a moldy building, it’s like there could be mold from the food that they’re eating and even genetically, like how their body is processing varies from person to person. So two people in the same moldy house, one is able to metabolize these mycotoxins where someone else can get really ill and their immune system is compromised from that.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (39:33.037)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (39:45.323)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (39:54.071)
So that, yeah, for sure. I don’t think I’ve ever once sent out a mycotoxin test where it came back completely clear in someone with cancer. So not to say everyone’s got like through the roof, but for mold, yeah, everybody does have to some degree holding onto mold. So that’s really interesting too. The other I would say is, which is really interesting is when I do the hormone testing with people to see what their cortisol is like, the patterns are, they’re either like,

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:02.585)
mold.

Wow.

Lori (40:22.358)
through the roof cortisol, so like really high cortisol output or the opposite where they’ve just crashed and they like a flat line number. So I never see, you know, a perfect curve where it’s high in the morning and then tapers off and is low before bed. It’s always those drastic, like all or nothing. And that usually is the type where someone with a cancer diagnosis they are.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:24.665)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:44.711)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (40:49.368)
usually more all or nothing, like workaholics, like really type A personality, hard on themselves, like go, go, go, right? So their hormone picture looks pretty much like that, too. So it’s interesting to see, like, because you can’t function at that high cortisol output for long before your body’s like, okay, I need to peace out, you know? Like, it’s exhausting.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (40:57.294)
Yep.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:10.09)
Yeah, I’m tapped out, yes.

Lori (41:11.68)
Yeah, yeah. And so whether I catch them, you know, like in the prime of that high cortisol, and we know that it directly suppresses the immune function and how it’s being activated if you’re in this high cortisol state. So I would say across the board, there’s some adrenal component to it too, and how that’s affecting their immune system.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (41:31.383)
Yeah. my gosh. That’s so fascinating. I know at the cancer center I was contracting with, I think we never saw a cancer patient that didn’t have parasites. so it’s, it’s really interesting. Okay. So now what I want to get into is what does treating detoxing some of these different pathogens and pollutants look like? What are some of your maybe top modalities or processes that we’re using to do this? Is this just

You know, we’re eating foods and taking binders and doing sauna or are there more things that we’re working in?

Lori (42:04.845)
Yeah, all of it. I’m like, all of it. Yeah, it’s really never just like a one punch knockout, right? Like the body needs often all of these modalities. But what I find works the best and is the most comprehensive is if you combine fasting. So fasting doesn’t have to be, you know, we look at your genetics too to see like how long you should be fasting as well.

to not overstress the system. However, when you put your body into the state of autophagy, that can start cleaning up parasites and bacteria and overgrowth of anything that shouldn’t be in the system, including abnormal cells. So that, I’d say, it has to be a part of everybody’s detox protocol. And like, how simple, right? You just build up the fasting time over, you know, it could be over weeks or months to see what you feel comfortable with, but just…

avoiding food like for at least 12 hours. Like that I would say is a massive part of any detox protocol. And then also gut health, like that has to be key as well. learning like, you know, what is going on. Like you said, parasites, we see that often as well, whether it is in a test or through the colon hydrotherapy, we call it the truth tube. The truth tube. We have colon therapists in the clinic who are just like…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (43:22.575)
Yeah.

Lori (43:28.972)
meant to be doing this. Like you could tell they are so excited about what comes out of somebody and they’ll send pictures and be like, this is amazing. Look what came out. And you think about like that is years in the making and she’s seeing parasites coming at what she normally does or excess mucus or excess candida. That is such a quick way to help the body start to turn over, right? Like if you, if someone has a candida overgrowth or has parasites,

it’s very challenging to make those diet changes because it’s almost like their gut is dictating these bad habits, right? And so they know certain things are not great for them, but they’re just like, must get them. Like, they can’t even… Yes, hijacking is the perfect word for that. Yes. And so the colon therapists get, quite excited when they start to see things coming out because that is years of someone just not… Even if they have a bowel movement every day, there’s things that get stuck in the pocket.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:04.047)
hijacking.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:12.195)
Yeah.

Lori (44:26.847)
where it could even be years in the making. So that’s a big part. Gut health and fasting, like how to support your immune system, how it detoxes and cleans up.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:28.877)
Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (44:39.467)
Yeah, my gosh. I want to come do this five day thing at your clinic. It just reminds me, I’ve done a lot of things. I actually have never had a colonic.

Lori (44:45.524)
Right?

Lori (44:49.351)
Yeah, and it’s something that most people, there’s a lot of just, I don’t know, maybe it’s fear or just like this discomfort of like, who’s gonna be giving this procedure? Like how far does the tube go up? know, like is this, like what is happening here? But it’s very gentle, you know, the tube goes in like an inch. It’s not like a colonoscopy at all. I personally get them done at least four times a year, just as I incorporate that with my, like I’ll do like a three day long.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (45:02.319)
Thank

Leigh Ann Lindsey (45:10.979)
Yeah.

Lori (45:18.549)
fasting, incorporate colonics with that. And I wanna see as almost like a reminder of, well, I do live in Mexico too. So I actually, I feel like it’s more important for people who travel a lot. And it’s like, even if you think you’re really healthy, it’s like what’s in the sand and in the water that we’re all just exposed to. So yeah, I do it as my own maintenance, but I think for everybody, it’s a really great way to assess what’s going on. You know, if you…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (45:29.327)
Yeah.

Lori (45:43.369)
see undigested food, okay, you have to chew more, or your body’s in the spider flight and you’re going too fast. So it’s more of an assessment tool for us as well as that therapy.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (45:54.201)
Wow. Yeah, that’s really fascinating. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it explained in that way where it’s not, it’s, see videos on social media of people doing colonics, but it’s more like a shock and awe factor. Like, Ooh, look at all this stuff. And I don’t think like when you just explained that, like it’s an assessment tool. What are we seeing in here? That tells us a lot.

Lori (46:05.899)
Yeah.

Lori (46:10.976)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I do spend a lot of time with the colon therapists who are nurses that they have the background in nursing and in the body, but to use that time while they’re getting the session to really educate, because that’s like, what else are you going to be talking about as you’re getting emptied out on the table? And so that’s a time where they could say like, hey, you know, I see undigested carrots. When’s the last time that you had carrots? You know that…

the last, you know, your body should digest and every meal that you have, it should be about 18 hours later that it leaves your system. So if they say, you know, I haven’t had carrots in three weeks, then that’s like… Your bowels are very lazy, you know, that transit time is very slow, and how can we help you improve that? So all of the things that are coming out, she’s trained to…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (46:52.182)
wow.

Lori (47:02.601)
look at it as clues of, how can we support your body to be more efficient, a stronger digestive system, and not be reliant on this therapy either, right? It’s more of how can we understand you more so you can do a lot of these things at home too.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (47:16.321)
Yeah. What are just some other modalities you guys maybe have in practice or that you’re recommending a lot? The list that comes to mind for me that I feel are quite common. The red light therapies, the saunas, the IVs of course, Ibu is starting to get a little more that blood filtering and ozonation. What do you guys got going on there?

Lori (47:28.2)
Yeah.

Lori (47:34.295)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we’re more about the combination of this synergistic effect. So all those things you mentioned are amazing. But if you look at most chronic illnesses, they’re seen as more of like a damp, cold, stagnated type of condition. So we focus on heat therapies to help activate the system. So there’s something called heat shock proteins that can be activated through the sauna.

but we combine that with hyperthermia. So it’s getting like localized heat to the area that we want the immune system to focus on. And then we could also be adding something like mistletoe therapy through IV. So when you’re doing mistletoe in an IV, you can go at really high levels to develop a fever. So fevers are a fantastic way to get your immune system activated. And so if you just come in for mistletoe, I mean, that’s great. But then if you go and like go to an ice bath right after, you’re not really letting the body

Leigh Ann Lindsey (48:18.553)
Mm.

Lori (48:30.773)
fully do what it needs to do, right? So our intention is to organize all these therapies in a way that’s giving your body and your immune system the best chance. And what I find is all of the therapies, like you said, are fantastic, but it’s the way that we curate them together and that heat component is really important. yeah, saunas, hypothermia, mistletoe, even we’ll have the tees designed to be like more of ginger teas and the…

maybe turmeric, like warming soups, like things that are just more heat activating for them. And then love ozone too. I think everybody could benefit from being more oxygenated, right? So we would do that either rectally, vaginally, you can do that through inhalation, through IV as well, like cleaning out your blood with ozone. We don’t do eBoo. I love that therapy as well, where it’s more of like a filtration system. So we don’t do that in the clinic, but we do offer all the other…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (49:04.077)
Yeah.

Lori (49:26.717)
ozone modalities.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (49:28.887)
Yeah, I love that. You got some Ayurvedic principles there, looking at like the dampness and the heat.

Lori (49:35.889)
Yeah, right. And I do think there’s a time and place for ice baths and the cold, like the shock to the system and how you can breathe through it and train your nervous system to be more resilient and take on other stressors. However, yeah, there’s a time and place for all of it. So yeah, I can’t ever say like everybody needs this, but you’re right. And the sense of cancer, usually the patterns do look like that where they would benefit from the warming and even the way that they’re eating too, like to have

raw foods all the time, like we want to be really easy on the digestive system so we have soups and low glycemic, easy to digest, but anti-inflammatory. So it’s slowing down their digestive system.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (50:20.865)
Yeah, I just love the attention to detail there. moving into, so that’s an element of essentially what is depleting my system? What’s weighing on me that we need to get out? And then it’s what is all the good stuff I don’t have enough of? And it sounds like a lot of that is the nutrition, the sleep, the hydration, but

Lori (50:33.918)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (50:38.11)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (50:44.227)
What else might that encompass for you guys, whether it’s supplements, modalities, what are maybe like the nourishing things?

Lori (50:50.634)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and so we kind of look at it as like in a wheel, right? So you’re having like one part of it is the assessing and understanding, even if it’s just through a really well curated questionnaire where you say like, okay, what’s your history? Like, let’s see where you’re at. And then it goes into cleanup mode. Like we have to clean up whatever’s distracting your system because there’s no sense saying like, here, take all these vitamins if you are not absorbing anything, right? So.

cleaning up whatever is creating a stress on the system, and then it goes into that third component of replenishing and nourishing. So it’s always like a constant wheel. It doesn’t mean that it’s one, two, three steps. It’s, okay, as you’re expressing this, how can we nourish your body differently? So we focus on, we have therapies like PEMF therapy, so the Pulsed Electromagnetic Frequency. We love using Brain Tap as well. I don’t know if you’re familiar.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (51:42.858)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lori (51:44.01)
So that helps us as the subconscious beliefs, and so it’s… We love using… We could set the meditation, or I guess it’s more of a hypnosis, to anything that they maybe suffer… Finding is an obstacle for them to make those lifestyle changes. So it could be, you know, if they have sugar cravings, how can we help on a subconscious level so those cravings are less? Or, you know, if it’s like they really need to understand…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (51:54.169)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (52:10.153)
detoxing or food as medicine. So that is about 20 minutes, could be once or twice a day, where it’d be more of like nourishing our brain, right? Like putting in those healthier thought patterns that, you know, a lot of us are just kind of ingrained based on how we were raised to think a certain way. So it’s kind of recognizing what are those obstacles and how can we support on, and you know, of you could be telling me more about this, but it would be about just helping with the subconscious beliefs to make this process easier.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:18.671)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (52:34.607)
you

Lori (52:38.89)
IV therapy is another one where we can say specifically just say they’re low in magnesium and they can’t sleep at night, they have muscle aches or cramping or they’re just really tired. Something as simple as a nutrient deficiency, we can create their vitamin bag to get 100 % absorption into the cell versus supplements which maybe they’re absorbing half of it, we don’t know based on kind of what state their digestive system’s at.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (53:07.599)
Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love all of that. And just that we’re considering every single facet of the body. Okay. So now I have to ask about this because I can’t not, and then we’ll kind of see if there’s anything I missed and we’ll start to close out. But what you did mention, something I see almost every cancer patient have is either cortisol through the roof or no cortisol at all. It’s completely tanked. And what…

Lori (53:32.916)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (53:35.399)
What are you feeling like the stress past trauma contributing is to this? And speaking from my experience, I’ve never worked with a cancer patient who didn’t have some kind of past trauma, if not multiple traumas, but at least one.

Lori (53:49.8)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (53:53.429)
big trauma in their life that I think has then just been rippling out and maybe unconscious intellectual levels. They’ve moved on, they’ve processed it, but there’s actually still a ton of deep unconscious, what I would call turbulence. But what are you seeing with stress, trauma?

Lori (53:58.026)
Thank you.

Lori (54:06.473)
Yeah.

Lori (54:10.311)
Yeah, and just to also acknowledge just because they don’t acknowledge doesn’t mean that it’s not there, right? Like it could be so buried deep that it’s so painful to even bring it up or even to acknowledge that, that there is something that is throwing their nervous system off and now they’re compensating in ways to help them feel protected, right? And so whether it was abuse when they’re young or not feeling

good enough or, you know, feeling scared or, you know, living in a hostile environment, like things that are just, you know, when they’re younger or even now, like whatever they’re exposed to, that absolutely impacts their nervous system and the decisions that they make now. So most people, I don’t want to say everyone, but usually it is that overachiever of…

you know, I have control over how much I can, how much money I can make and how much work I can do. And so you look at these habits where it’s like, okay, you’re not, you know, you’re not gonna be focusing on food and making meal prepping for the week on a Sunday. Like that’s not gonna be you. You’re gonna be the one that’s working 24 seven deprived of sleep because you’re just, your body’s so revved up and anxious. And so looking at that full picture there of, you know, what is it that is,

what is affecting their lifestyle now, right? And whether it was something when they’re really young or it could be even something where they’re at work and they’re like, they feel like they have to act a certain way or be a certain way or their friend group or their family. Like it’s really investigating that of why do they feel like they have to drink that much or…

you know, why are you craving these sugars just at nighttime before you go to bed, but you’re fine throughout the day? So it’s looking at like what specifically their habit is that’s self sabotaging them essentially, right? And digging deeper of like, what are you lacking that, you know, you’re trying to compensate with?

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:08.865)
Yeah, completely. kind of, break it up into two categories and then kind of subcategories, but I always, when I start with someone, like, we need to look at present day turbulence and past turbulence. And the present day turbulence can be around just this diagnosis and the fear, the grief, the anger, the overwhelm, the shock.

Lori (56:24.307)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:27.587)
That is super important, but also present day turbulence can mean what are the misalignments in your life that truly on like a soul spiritual level, your psyche is saying, this is not for me.

Lori (56:40.253)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (56:41.655)
I can’t live in this way anymore. I always tell my patients cancer is the mind, body and spirit saying, I cannot continue in this way anymore. And physiologically it’s the body saying, I, you know, I’ve been fighting these parasites and mycotoxins for a long time. I’m about to tap out. And in my world it’s what have we emotionally, soulfully, spiritually been fighting or repressing or holding onto for a long, long time that the psyche is starting to go.

Lori (56:50.557)
Mm-hmm.

Lori (56:59.593)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (57:10.667)
I can’t live in this misalignment much longer.

Lori (57:13.627)
Exactly, exactly. And then yes, to recognize that and to see the changes. But then I also see it kind of on the opposite side of the spectrum too, where someone feels that they have to do everything and that is all consuming for them as well, where their lifestyle is like, I had to do this. And they’re missing out on a whole aspect of joy and purpose of, you know, it’s amazing you’re making all these lifestyle changes and you’re doing all these things, but

Leigh Ann Lindsey (57:29.027)
Totally.

Lori (57:43.003)
Is that now depleting you in other ways, right? Like how can we create that joy back in your life and why do you get up every day? Like what is it that you get it excited about? Because I do feel like them having a purpose and excitement of like, why am I living? I think most people forget how to live. Like it’s more, how can I do this more and more and like really be cancer free and then harden myself if it doesn’t come back the way I want. You look at that type of stress on the nervous system and it’s like…

Is it better just to maybe do nothing at all? Is it better just to like sit on a mountain and just sit there and pee? Like, you know, we don’t know, but I know that process is huge of how they’re perceiving the plan. If it’s aligned with what they wanna do, if it feels like it’s a sustainable process, right? In clinic is one thing where we have this intensive experience, but in no way do we think people are gonna do that.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:15.641)
Less.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:20.054)
Right?

Lori (58:37.885)
for the rest of their life. So it’s like how to navigate, like these are top priority, but also prioritizing alone time and breath work and, you know, painting, if you love painting, like it’s really finding, getting back to what do you love and how that fits in that big picture.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:47.065)
lately.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (58:54.967)
Yeah. I mean, sometimes that overextension is the misalignment where we get into the work and the psyche is like, I want to slow down. I want more joy. I want more play. I want more stillness. Sometimes it’s I’ve been, you know, playing with changing careers for 15 years now. And my psyche is like,

Lori (59:04.243)
Yes.

Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (59:15.497)
This is a huge missing piece for me. Sometimes I see relationships be a huge source of misalignment for a lot of people. But to your point, it’s not, my job isn’t to go great, so leave that job tomorrow. Great, exit that relationship today. It’s not about that. Then the deep, deep work is to go, what’s going on in my unconscious that’s keeping me in this?

Lori (59:22.309)
Yes.

Lori (59:31.976)
Yeah.

Lori (59:39.623)
Yes.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (59:40.343)
that I’m afraid of, where did those narratives originate from? We have to actually do a lot of that work first so that the shift that we might need to make no longer feels like this big, threatening, scary thing. It actually then feels so aligned and peaceful and safe.

Lori (59:46.835)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lori (59:56.441)
Exactly, and it’s all about the perception, right? And, you know, maybe that job doesn’t suck so bad when we start to spin it around. my god, sorry, my nice guy is here. One second. He’s, hammering… Hammering a wall. One second.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:00:07.841)
Okay.

Lori (01:00:13.258)
Yes, yes. Me. Oh my God, get to hear my butchered Spanish. Like me.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:00:27.727)
You

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:00:32.501)
Yeah.

Lori (01:00:33.287)
Sorry. Okay. I did want to share something about just a conversation that I had with a patient recently where she, you know, she’s fighting really hard to stay alive. You know, she is just doing all the things and it’s kind of what we’re saying where it’s consuming her. You know, she’s very much like, I have to do all these things if I don’t do what my oncologist says, if I don’t do what my naturopath says, if I don’t do all this, like, you know, and…

she came to this realization that she said, you know, what if I just, what if I died? Like it’s not, is that the worst? And you know, I was just taken back by that of like, well, you know, we all die eventually. Like that is a part of we all do. And so it’s asking that question of like, what are we so afraid of? Like are we, you know, do we want, when we are…

on this planet, you know, and we’re really trying to live our healthiest and best lives, but if it’s becoming a nightmare, you know, sometimes just letting go of that fear of like, what if it did just happen can be such a relief and not saying, you know, not saying like, you’re going to go now, but it’s more about that pressure that you have on yourself. And then to even just like be at peace of like, hey, like I’m doing the best I can and whatever is meant to be is… Like we all do… It’s not a sign of failure. Like it’s not like you…

failed your family or failed anybody, right? If you go, it’s more of like we all have our time. So I feel like that alone is a important thing to realize, like it’s not, you know, that’s a part of life. We all go at some point, it’s not, you know, fail, right? And so taking that pressure off of, you know, this is a path, that’s how can we make each day the strongest and full of joy and full of love and all of those things and…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:02:12.398)
Yeah.

Lori (01:02:23.102)
to not overwhelm ourselves of just those pressures and guilt and fear and all the things that can just be exhausting.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:02:30.283)
Yeah, I’m with you 100%. I see a lot of emotional bypass in all of the kind of like positive thinking affirmation rhetoric. I think there’s actually a lot of emotional bypass that’s happening where people go, no, I won’t even consider death. can’t go there. And I’m in my perspective, I’m like, there’s a part of your psyche.

Lori (01:02:46.845)
Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:02:51.085)
that is so fearful right now, we have to meet that part and go into relationship with it. But then we workshop it from both of these perspectives. One is if I’m, what am I afraid of really? Some people it’s I’m afraid of what comes next. Some people it’s I’m afraid of what happens to my family. Some people it’s, so we have to reckon with that. And there is a ton of peace that comes from it. Then we sit with

Lori (01:03:08.14)
and

Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:03:17.161)
What do we need to do now and next week and next month so that if you did pass, you could have peace? Peace, peace meaning I know I have so much peace and confidence that I did every single thing within my power. So if I’m going, it’s still sad. It still might be devastating. It’s gonna be really hard, but I ultimately have peace with me in the effort I put in or whatever that looks like.

Lori (01:03:23.814)
This is a…

Lori (01:03:32.335)
Yeah.

Yes, sir.

Lori (01:03:44.04)
Exactly. And I think everybody should live like that, right? And I don’t know if it’s like this morbid thought that I get recurrently of like, what if someone just like ran over me right now? Like I’d be gone, you know? I like, randomly those thoughts will come into my head. I’m like, I could just be gone, you know? And so I think if everybody lives like that of like, you know, what, how would I want to prepare for that? Like it’s something we should think about, you know? It’s just…

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:03:57.986)
If

Lori (01:04:12.571)
even without a diagnosis of what would I need to have set up just in case someone did just run me over right now. What would I be, you know, feel great about of having provided for my loved ones or family or things that everyone should know? And even that permission to express yourself too, right? I find with cancer, it’s that immediate connection that people have with their family where they’re saying things that they would never have thought of saying before. So they’re now…

getting closer on a level that they couldn’t even comprehend. So that alone is like, a powerful gift that the diagnosis can have is having people so connected that they’re feeling love on like a whole different level.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:04:54.447)
it breaks through so much. And I often say cancer sets the boundaries that we couldn’t. and a huge part of my work with clients is to go, how cool all these boundaries you finally started setting in this diagnosis in some ways, cause you have to, because you’re in treatment all the time. So you’re not going to go to that party or that thing, or you’re not going to take that phone call. Our job is to also make sure that your psyche feels so safe that when you’re on the other side of this diagnosis.

Lori (01:05:12.263)
you

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:05:23.713)
A lot of those boundaries are going to be maintained and we’re not just going to flip right back into all the ways we were living before.

Lori (01:05:30.914)
Right? And that’s the trick is how to make that your new normal without feeling like it’s, I can’t do this, I can’t do that, and I can’t do that, right? Where it’s like torture for someone, but how can you create these like keto mocktails and still be social or have, you know, what else could you do that is still feeling of socialization and what feels helps you network and your purpose and all of that without it?

killing you, essentially. So, yes, it’s how to carry that on and support this healthy new you and integrate into your life where you’re actually empowered and excited about it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:06:08.547)
Yeah, I love it. my gosh, well, Dr. Bouchard, thank you so much. Anything that we didn’t cover that you feel is really, really important, or if not, let us know where people can find you, learn more, if they’re interested in being a patient, what that process might look like.

Lori (01:06:23.794)
Yes, I’m very active on Instagram. I share a lot about just the day-to-day healthy lifestyle and just different resources. And if you are on Instagram, you go on Dr. Lori Bouchard, N.D. So you could even reach out and have a conversation there. I love when people reach out and tell me what’s going on and see how I can help.

And then also I have my own podcast too called the Thrive On Podcast. And so if someone wants to learn about this process even more, what I do in clinic and how I support people, they can listen there.

Leigh Ann Lindsey (01:06:55.383)
I love it. That’s amazing. And we’ll make sure all of that is linked in the show notes. So it’s also really easy for people to find. Thank you so much.

Lori (01:07:02.073)
Amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you. This is a great conversation. Thank you so much for having me.